How would you handle this


Treo

Bullet Proof
First let me say that this story is second hand but I have no reason to doubt it.

My friend from church told me this weekend about an incident that occurred one Sunday when he was working in the sound booth. According to him he was training a new soundman when he noticed that the guy was carrying. He then told me that he reached over and grabbed the guy’s gun and asked is that what I think it is. He told me the trainee slapped his hand away and backed up and that he (my friend) then told him he had no objection to the trainee carrying.

The story is kinda weird to me because on the one hand I can’t imagine anyone being that “white”. When I add the fact that the trainee is a SF Medical Sgt w/ at least one combat tour it’s even less believable, but if I was going to go “white” anywhere I suppose it would be in the sound booth at church while I was totally focused on learning a new skill.

Be that as it may I believe it happened and I am certain my friend doesn’t realize how absolutely stupid his actions were and I’m even more certain he won’t” get it” if I tell him.

How would you handle such a situation? What would you do if someone was dicking around and grabbed your gun?

Before you answer remember

You semi know the guy that did it. This is not some random thug who is trying to steal your gun or attack you

You’re in the middle of a church service and you’re trying to maintain some level of concealment, you really can’t just start wailing on the guy.

What would you do?

Based on my knowledge of my friend I wouldn’t waste my time trying to explain why he was wrong, I Would ask him not to do it again and I would never put myself in that position again. Just as, after this weekend, I am going to be much more circumspect in what I share w/ him.
 

eXGee11

New member
Stick my finger in his face and tell him "don't you EVER do that again. Are you stupid or something"? Screw the service, this dude needs to know he could have been flattened. Then again, im the loud type.
 

Treo

Bullet Proof
Stick my finger in his face and tell him "don't you EVER do that again. Are you stupid or something"? Screw the service, this dude needs to know he could have been flattened. Then again, im the loud type.

So, instead of the one guy you'd involve the entire congregation?
 

NavyLCDR

New member
Since this is in the concealed carry section, my answer is the guy with the gun should have been concealing better.
 

TekGreg

New member
Treo, since you are a third party to this incident and not one of the parties involved and are simply trying to help your friend, I might say something to him like, "Wow, I would (or "You should") never grab a person's gun, concealed or not! That's like grabbing a person's __________ (wallet, child, Johnson - whatever will shock your friend and make him think)!" This is a serious personal space issue and anyone that feels like they can invade others like that need to be corrected...hopefully by someone kind like friends and family before it gets ugly.

Were I the one that got grabbed, since the service was going on, I would have been extremely mad that he invaded my space and to keep from making a scene, I would've walked out very quietly - both to keep anything from developing and to show the grabber that he had stepped WAAAAY over the line with me. After the service, I would've returned to address the issue with Mr. Grabber when I was cooler and he had realized he had screwed up. It obviously must be addressed so he doesn't do it again with someone that may not be so understanding and the CC must also address why it was so easy to spot.

I would like to add that it is lucky for Mr. Grabber that the other person wasn't trained in Retention Techniques. Even though he had "gone White," the touch of someone on his weapon could have caused him to "Go Red" and secure his weapon, resulting in a broken arm or worse. This is often not conscious, but a sub-conscious reaction and happens in a fraction of a second as a result of training, and not due to an over-reaction or someone just wanting to be violent.
 

pmb61

New member
Agree with above that the grabber was out of line. As far as not carrying in a church. How many shootings have occurred in churches in the past?? I just heard today on the local news that there was an incident in Lakeland , Fl .

Link Removed

Anything can happen Anytime , anywhere!
 

Ghost Rider

New member
Your friend is not smart at all for grabbing the gun, but the guy that was concealed carrying is just as much at fault for doing an extremely poor job of concealing his gun in the first place.
 

Mobuck

New member
I'd say the "friend" is lucky he didn't get knocked flat IF the other guy was actually SF anything. Such an invasion of personal space even if the carrier imprudently let his weapon show would be grounds for serious physical contact.
 

eXGee11

New member
Treo:230831 said:
Stick my finger in his face and tell him "don't you EVER do that again. Are you stupid or something"? Screw the service, this dude needs to know he could have been flattened. Then again, im the loud type.

So, instead of the one guy you'd involve the entire congregation?

I would be as quiet as possible but I don't think I would wait til after the service. That's a tough question.
 

MarkX

New member
He risked his life

Let him know that if he did that on the street to a stranger, he could likely get shot. And even in the controlled environment you were in, instincts can kick in, especially if someone has combat training.
While this maybe a little overly dramatic, it should get his attention.

RE: 'screw the service'. I to am a sound man in a church and carry there. Our church is pretty free flowing and not overly reverent, but the last thing you want to do in the sound booth is be a distraction.

RE: 'conceal it better'. in a sound booth you feel concealed by nature of being in a booth. Only the people in the booth can see you below the waist. Also you are often reaching or bending in ways that you seldom do otherwise.
 

Catfan63

New member
RE: 'screw the service'. I to am a sound man in a church and carry there. Our church is pretty free flowing and not overly reverent, but the last thing you want to do in the sound booth is be a distraction.

I am also a sound dude and I carry 'religiously' :no: --- a good sound guy or gal is like a good referee in football- you never know they're there. Hopefully there isn't any backlash within the congregation but your friend really needs to be educate.

As to the guy that was carrying and was the sound trainee, while training it would be very easy to 'go white' as there is much to do and think about while learning the sound board. This is a valuable lesson for him and hopefully, he will learn from it.
 

MCMXI

New member
You should definitely educate your friend as to where he went wrong. Be tactfull and respectfull, but drive the point home.

As to what I would do...who knows!? I'd like to think that I would swat his hand away and politely tell him to piss off, but I'm truly not sure.

As far as it being concealed better...coulda, woulda, shoulda. In Mn, we can carry however we feel like carrying that day. I carry concealed, but don't really give a damn if I'm reaching or bending and someone notices my sidearm. It's not brandishing, and if they have a problem with me carrying, they can relocate themselves. A lot of people chastise others for being made while carrying, like they don't deserve to own a gun. I think it's ridiculous and gets blown out of proportion. I'll worry about mine, you worry about yours...

So far in my relatively short time of carrying, I've yet to be made...at least I think. No little old ladies or children running away screaming "GUN!" yet.
 

Treo

Bullet Proof
I was going to start a new thread about this but I think it’s appropriate to keep it in this context.

Guys, I really don’t know how to explain it but my friend Does. Not .Get .It.
I sincerely believe that his mind just isn’t wired that way. I spent all day w/ him on Saturday (9.17) and some of the things that he talked about have convinced me that he just
Does. Not .Get .It.

Sunday last (9.11) I walk up to him after service to say “Hi” He happened to be standing next to the SF sound guy and he looks at me and spins around and says ‘Can you tell if I’m printing?” He says it loud. The SF guy looks at him like ‘You idiot” and the woman next to him get a deer in the headlights look and I could see her mind click into “I did not just hear what I just heard mode.” I looked right at him and said “It doesn’t matter if you’re printing or not every one in earshot now knows” He just looked at me like ‘So?’

I would be willing to bet my ass he was told not to tell anyone what was up.

Saturday (9.17) he tells me:

About the Op incident, when I explain that it wasn’t his best work he responds “It was a joke”

That he’s told one of the Praise Team I carry. When I explain I’d rather the whole church didn’t know he explains that she felt more comfortable knowing who was or wasn’t carrying. (I like the girl but I don’t want her that deep in my business w/out me knowing it)

He mentions to me that 5 or 6 guys I don’t know also carry in church. Wonder how they might feel about that?

He told me a story about driving through a town in Nebraska when another driver wouldn’t let him change lanes. According to him they pulled up at a light and he tossed a shotgun shell into the other guy’s car and told him “if you don’t want me to use that you sit at that light and let me pass.

He got upset when I explained that his actions were a wonderful way to buy yourself a ticket to a gunfight or a jail cell.

That’s what I meant when I said I wouldn’t bother trying to explain it to him because I really think his mind won’t grasp the concept I really don’t even think an ass whooping would help

He just

Does. Not .Get .It.
 

Iam2Taz

New member
Treo... There are a number of comments above that I agree with.

If the guy grabs my gun, I'm gonna show him the back of my hand. (Remember we are in the sound booth.) If I am in the middle of the congregation. I would slowly walk out quietly, then meet him later to discuss the situation. With standing up and setting down for music and prayer I could see how a pistol might be uncovered.

As for your friend, he really isn't a friend. Some people just need to be avoided. Seek some place else when you see him.
 

TekGreg

New member
I was going to start a new thread about this but I think it’s appropriate to keep it in this context.

Guys, I really don’t know how to explain it but my friend Does. Not .Get .It.
I sincerely believe that his mind just isn’t wired that way. I spent all day w/ him on Saturday (9.17) and some of the things that he talked about have convinced me that he just
Does. Not .Get .It.

Sunday last... (snip)

Wow, Treo, I do not envy you. About the only thing I could think to say to him, were he my friend, is to tell him either; 1. Don't talk to anyone about my business, ever, at all, for any reason. or, 2. I don't carry anymore - I decided against it (a lie). I mean, it sounds like he is not going to take anyone's concerns into consideration, so the only thing to do until he finally does get "IT" is to lie so he can't pass your situation along to others.

When you were talking about the woman that told him she felt better knowing who was carrying, he was obviously too clueless to realize that that could mean she could ALSO mean she was uncomfortable around people WITH guns in church. All you need is a smart troll using him to provide all sorts of info on you and other CCers and no telling what they will try to do with it.

I wish you luck and please let us know if you come up with a successful solution.
 

golddigger14s

SFC At Fort Lewis, WA
Agree with above that the grabber was out of line. As far as not carrying in a church. How many shootings have occurred in churches in the past?? I just heard today on the local news that there was an incident in Lakeland , Fl .

Link Removed


Anything can happen Anytime , anywhere!

This happened in CO, there was a very bad shooting in CO at a couple of churches. The BG was finally taken down by a PT female security guard.
 

Treo

Bullet Proof
When you were talking about the woman that told him she felt better knowing who was carrying, he was obviously too clueless to realize that that could mean she could ALSO mean she was uncomfortable around people WITH guns in church. All you need is a smart troll using him to provide all sorts of info on you and other CCers and no telling what they will try to do with it.

I can see how this would be an issue but not w/ her. I know this woman and she is good people. It's not so much that I mind her knowing as it was my place to share that information not his
 

Treo

Bullet Proof
This happened in CO, there was a very bad shooting in CO at a couple of churches. The BG was finally taken down by a PT female security guard.

Jeanne Assam was not a part time anything. She was an armed volunteer who had no official standing. IOW she was a private citizen
 

S&WM&P40

New member
Jeanne Assam was not a part time anything. She was an armed volunteer who had no official standing. IOW she was a private citizen


What he means is she volunteered to work as security that day. Yes while she was a private citizen that day she was a former police officer from Minnesota. So she had been trained on how to move and shoot in a tactical active shooter scene and how to over come tunnel vision,heart rate etc..

But you bring up a great point, seeing as how she was a private citizen why did she yell "Police Officer" at the gun man(those are her own words!)
 

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