Is it really possible to decock the gun with the manual safety engaged? I thought the whole purpose of a manual safety was to keep the hammer from falling when the trigger is pulled?
How Do You Safely Carry?
- Thread starter localgirl
- Start date
Is it really possible to decock the gun with the manual safety engaged? I thought the whole purpose of a manual safety was to keep the hammer from falling when the trigger is pulled?
localgirl
New member
OK, I had a few minutes on my lunch break and headed to the range.
I didn't have time to test all the conditions, but I can say that yes, if you pull the trigger with the safety on, the pistol decocks. Kind of weird and scary.
I can also report to you that with the hammer down, round in the chamber, the trigger pull takes about a week to engage. SERIOUSLY long, hard pull.
I plan to spend more time this weekend, though I must confess, I'm leaning towards cocked and locked at this point.
I didn't have time to test all the conditions, but I can say that yes, if you pull the trigger with the safety on, the pistol decocks. Kind of weird and scary.
I can also report to you that with the hammer down, round in the chamber, the trigger pull takes about a week to engage. SERIOUSLY long, hard pull.
I plan to spend more time this weekend, though I must confess, I'm leaning towards cocked and locked at this point.
Well, that's weird! I did have a P345 that the safety on position was also the decocker, as well as the Beretta M-9, but I have never heard of a gun decocking with the trigger with the safety on.
I would highly recommend figuring out a way to carry on your body, though, because the first then a criminal is going to take from you is your purse or handbag.
Hamilton Felix
New member
Localgirl, do yourself a favor and visit Link Removed and look at what's offered. My Beloved Kathleen has stopped carrying in her handbag, in favor of her Naturally Concealed rig. She swears it is more comfortable then her bra. Nobody ever "makes" her when she carries. I'll admit she's a big busty gal; a really skinny woman might find it more of a challenge. But for my Kate, her Airweight Centennial and two extra speedloaders are no annoyance at all to carry all day. Remember, you send the nice lady two important measurements, and she custom makes the rig and gets it to you very quickly. Quite affordable, too.
tcox4freedom
New member
I'm glad you're listening to all the good advice and realize that carrying a gun with an empty chamber is not a great idea. Please come the rest of the way; and realize "On Body" carry is a far, far, better method than "off body carry".
One other method is AIWB. This has become my wife's preferred method of carry. I also think the "Smartcarry" works for most women very well; in all but the tightest of clothes.
It's a fact of life; skin tight clothes and cc generally do not "easily" mix. But, when your personal safety and style choice butt heads, SAFETY should always win out.
Remember, the most stylish outfit and the most expensive designer handbag will do ABSOLUTELY nothing to insure you get safely back home. But, a good firearm and IWB holster just might save you life one day.
B2Tall
Stirrer of the Pot
I know a woman who's exceptionally proficient with firearms and who carries every day. She said she never carries her pistol in her purse. Purses are too easy to snatch (they're natural targets for thieves), too cluttered, and sometimes not within arm's length. Depending on her choice of clothing she either uses an ankle holster or an IWB rig.
As far as whether you carry chambered or not....if you don't, you better make sure you're really good when it comes to drawing, racking, and aiming. Practice, practice, practice.
As far as whether you carry chambered or not....if you don't, you better make sure you're really good when it comes to drawing, racking, and aiming. Practice, practice, practice.
jrtyson72
XDMan
I'm in Texas, so I decided to go with a Smartcarry holster band that I can wear under my cargo short wich I wear a size big with a belt. Only print I get is from the butt, which I cant help, it being a double stack mag but my shirt covers it well. Nobody has been able to tell. I also keep it chamberd and ready with the safety on. All it takes it practice for the draw. I'm still shopping around for a IWB/small of back or kidney are for the jean wearing.
Cari A.
Crazy Horse Lady
Localgirl, getting into the conversation late. You have gotten some great advice by the guys, they know what is and isn't safe and hope you take some of it to heart. But, let me make a suggestion, woman to woman.
A bit of background..I hated guns, hated everything about them for a long time. I have a retired military husband who can shoot a nats fanny off at some distance, is an FFL, and loves to target practice or skeet shoot, doesn't matter what were doing. I am also an EMT and one call, we ran a rather intense call and afterwords the man seemed very grateful for all we did. He was put on my floor where I also worked at our local hospital and when he was discharged, he was so upset he had no ride home so, being a nice person, I took him home, as it was only about 5 miles out of my way. WRONG thing to do. Bottom line, I had a stalker for about 2 years, who had a 5 page rap sheet and it was not good at all. I learned to shoot and I shoot well.
I started out going to a friends house who has a plethora of fire power, everything from small hand guns to hand cannons, shotguns, rifles, you name it we shot it. I tried everything to find out what I was comfortable with, what fit in my hands, what I enjoyed or didn't like and once I had done that several times, my husband I went out and bought my first weapon. I started carrying a Glock 19. Because I conceal carry, my weapon is always hot, I will not take chances with myself nor my family nor our safety. I strongly encourage you to do what I did, go out and try other weapons if you find the one you have now is stiff or your not comfortable with, which is what I am getting from you.
Now, because I found the Glock 19 a bit too cumbersome to carry, as I also have a weapon when I ride my horse, my husband got me a Glock 26 for Christmas and I love it! It fits a lot better against my side, I can conceal it well, and it is a bit lighter than the Glock 19. I still carry the other one, but my preferred choice is the 26.
A bit of background..I hated guns, hated everything about them for a long time. I have a retired military husband who can shoot a nats fanny off at some distance, is an FFL, and loves to target practice or skeet shoot, doesn't matter what were doing. I am also an EMT and one call, we ran a rather intense call and afterwords the man seemed very grateful for all we did. He was put on my floor where I also worked at our local hospital and when he was discharged, he was so upset he had no ride home so, being a nice person, I took him home, as it was only about 5 miles out of my way. WRONG thing to do. Bottom line, I had a stalker for about 2 years, who had a 5 page rap sheet and it was not good at all. I learned to shoot and I shoot well.
I started out going to a friends house who has a plethora of fire power, everything from small hand guns to hand cannons, shotguns, rifles, you name it we shot it. I tried everything to find out what I was comfortable with, what fit in my hands, what I enjoyed or didn't like and once I had done that several times, my husband I went out and bought my first weapon. I started carrying a Glock 19. Because I conceal carry, my weapon is always hot, I will not take chances with myself nor my family nor our safety. I strongly encourage you to do what I did, go out and try other weapons if you find the one you have now is stiff or your not comfortable with, which is what I am getting from you.
Now, because I found the Glock 19 a bit too cumbersome to carry, as I also have a weapon when I ride my horse, my husband got me a Glock 26 for Christmas and I love it! It fits a lot better against my side, I can conceal it well, and it is a bit lighter than the Glock 19. I still carry the other one, but my preferred choice is the 26.
Doc Mustang
New member
Getting in a bit late but here goes. First I was not directly familiar with the PK380 but I found this with a quick google search:
The PK380 has an eight-shot stainless steel magazine, for a total loaded capacity of nine. It is perfectly safe to carry the PK380 with a cartridge in the chamber. The pistol has an ambidextrous hammer-block thumb safety, in addition to a firing pin block. The firing pin cannot contact a primer unless the trigger is pulled. The PK380 has a traditional double action/single action operating mechanism. In normal use, the pistol is carried with the hammer down and a live round in the chamber. Releasing the thumb safety and then pulling the trigger fires the first round double action, with subsequent rounds fired in the single action mode. The thumb safety is not a hammer-drop, but merely rotates a block of steel to prevent the hammer from contacting the firing pin. The hammer can then be safely lowered manually. (emphasis mine) Full Review
1. Off body carry has its own risks associated with it. It can be a viable means of carry but you should take steps to do it safely and understand the risks involved.
- There was an episode of "The Unit" that covered this well. One of the wives was carrying in a purse but when she needed the gun, it was in another room. An untrained person (formerly anti gun) got a hold of it and used it to defend her, but the principle that an untrained person was able to get a hold of her gun still stands.
2. The PK380 was designed to be carried with a round in the chamber, hammer down, safety on. The safety is a hammer block, and the trigger serves as a "decocker" of sorts. However prudence demands pointing the pistol in a safe direction, activating the safety and performing a controlled hammer drop.
3. The importance of training cannot be over emphasized. You will need to practice with your pistol a great deal to feel comfortable with it. Practice clearing malfunctions, practice drawing and firing. Above all practice operating the safety during your draw. This should be drilled until it is second nature. Note that much of this can be done at home by dry firing provided proper safety precautions are taken. "Snap Cap" dummy rounds are relatively cheap and have many training uses including much of what was discussed above. They are worthwhile investment for every caliber you shoot regularly.
4. As previously mentioned off body carry has some disadvantages. There are many good quality holsters out there designed for women. The search for a good carry method is something everyone goes through and we all have a "drawer" or bin full of holsters that we thought were a good idea at the time.
The following are some references for high quality holsters designed for women:
Nancy Special by Mitch Rosen, one of the premier holster makers.
Ladies Holsters by Rusty Cherrick, another custom holster manufacturer
I have written in other threads about the importance of a good holster. You are developing a system of carrying. You should expect to pay $250-300 for your holster and gun belt(s) for good high quality equipment. I promise that with holsters you really do get what you pay for.
The PK380 has an eight-shot stainless steel magazine, for a total loaded capacity of nine. It is perfectly safe to carry the PK380 with a cartridge in the chamber. The pistol has an ambidextrous hammer-block thumb safety, in addition to a firing pin block. The firing pin cannot contact a primer unless the trigger is pulled. The PK380 has a traditional double action/single action operating mechanism. In normal use, the pistol is carried with the hammer down and a live round in the chamber. Releasing the thumb safety and then pulling the trigger fires the first round double action, with subsequent rounds fired in the single action mode. The thumb safety is not a hammer-drop, but merely rotates a block of steel to prevent the hammer from contacting the firing pin. The hammer can then be safely lowered manually. (emphasis mine) Full Review
1. Off body carry has its own risks associated with it. It can be a viable means of carry but you should take steps to do it safely and understand the risks involved.
- There was an episode of "The Unit" that covered this well. One of the wives was carrying in a purse but when she needed the gun, it was in another room. An untrained person (formerly anti gun) got a hold of it and used it to defend her, but the principle that an untrained person was able to get a hold of her gun still stands.
2. The PK380 was designed to be carried with a round in the chamber, hammer down, safety on. The safety is a hammer block, and the trigger serves as a "decocker" of sorts. However prudence demands pointing the pistol in a safe direction, activating the safety and performing a controlled hammer drop.
3. The importance of training cannot be over emphasized. You will need to practice with your pistol a great deal to feel comfortable with it. Practice clearing malfunctions, practice drawing and firing. Above all practice operating the safety during your draw. This should be drilled until it is second nature. Note that much of this can be done at home by dry firing provided proper safety precautions are taken. "Snap Cap" dummy rounds are relatively cheap and have many training uses including much of what was discussed above. They are worthwhile investment for every caliber you shoot regularly.
4. As previously mentioned off body carry has some disadvantages. There are many good quality holsters out there designed for women. The search for a good carry method is something everyone goes through and we all have a "drawer" or bin full of holsters that we thought were a good idea at the time.
The following are some references for high quality holsters designed for women:
Nancy Special by Mitch Rosen, one of the premier holster makers.
Ladies Holsters by Rusty Cherrick, another custom holster manufacturer
I have written in other threads about the importance of a good holster. You are developing a system of carrying. You should expect to pay $250-300 for your holster and gun belt(s) for good high quality equipment. I promise that with holsters you really do get what you pay for.
Doug Rowan
New member
I would carry one chambered. If you look at any of the security videos of when SHTF, you will see most have VERY little time to react, every fraction of a second counts. by the time you took it out of your pack, racked the slide, you would likely be dead. I had a tough time deciding to carry my G26 loaded, given no external safety, but after getting my new Crossbreed holster, I have every confidence it can not negligent discharge. I personally have been in 2 situations in my life where I was carrying and a BG decided to try something bad. Once, I was aware enough to see what was going on, and I presented my gun, it diffused the situation. 2nd time it happened SO fast, gun in my face, nothing I could do, lost my wallet, thankfully that was all. But focusing on the 1st time, I drew, he decided to back away, but let's say he decided to go ahead and draw as well, I would not have had the time to rack the slide and present in the same time, plus the action of racking the slide might have stressed him out more to think I was going to shoot period, instead of diffuse the situation, the racking of slide could have convinced him, he better shoot back. So, long story short, better to be prepared. Now, with that being said, carry the way you want, and what you are comfortable with, it's better than leaving it at home. just MHO 
I would like to politely express that maybe you should give a belt holster another thought. My main concern is that your purse/bag may be the first thing to go when you get robbed. There are holster purses/handbags that you could use if you need to go that route. The main point is to have some form of holster so the gun stays in the same spot and position and the trigger is covered.
If I remember that model of gun correctly you should be able to chamber a round and decock the hammer, making it double action only with a long trigger pull?
If I remember that model of gun correctly you should be able to chamber a round and decock the hammer, making it double action only with a long trigger pull?
Grognard Gunny
New member
Wife (and I) prefer .357 snubbies for primary carry. (Hers a S&W "lady Smith", mine a Ruger SP101) No muss or fuss about "in or out the tube" carry. It's always ready to go. Just the normal "cover the trigger guard" precaution and you are good to go.
I do own two automatics that I don't fret about carrying with one in the tube. The Beretta Tomcat and the Beretta 9000S. The former has a good, solid safety which activates the first shot DA when clicked off and the safety on the 9000 deactivates the trigger altogether. Safety off, DA first shot also.
But, like the man said, you pays your money and takes your chances. As with everything in life, one cannnot plan for every possible contingency. You have to go with the odds/probabilities with regards to your own safety and comfort level. If it turns out that it isn't enough.... Sin loi! [edit: Roughly equates to "Sorry 'bout dat!"]
Just like driving a car..... you never know when your number is up.
GG
I do own two automatics that I don't fret about carrying with one in the tube. The Beretta Tomcat and the Beretta 9000S. The former has a good, solid safety which activates the first shot DA when clicked off and the safety on the 9000 deactivates the trigger altogether. Safety off, DA first shot also.
But, like the man said, you pays your money and takes your chances. As with everything in life, one cannnot plan for every possible contingency. You have to go with the odds/probabilities with regards to your own safety and comfort level. If it turns out that it isn't enough.... Sin loi! [edit: Roughly equates to "Sorry 'bout dat!"]
Just like driving a car..... you never know when your number is up.
GG
Treo
Bullet Proof
That's how I carry (no holes in my floor) but you should only carry that way if the gun is DA/SA otherwise you still have to cock the pistol to shoot.
If it's that much of an issue get a GLOCK
localgirl
New member
Well Guys, I promised you a range report from this weekend, but I'm afraid it didn't happen.
To make a long story short, I was nitpicked by the Rangemaster to the point that I left without firing a shot.
I practiced my conditions and my draw at home, empty, at an exterior wall with a garage behind it.
I realized a few things right away:
1. The bag I was using, although very carry-friendly, was not friendly enough. I immediately bought a different one.
2. My Walther (which I really love, BTW) has a half-cock safety. Who knew? I love this fact.
3. I will always carry one in the chamber. As someone pointed out, I may not always have two hands. And as I practiced, this became even more apparent.
4. Yes, my safety DID become much more manageable with use. Though I still prefer chambered, half-cock, no safety.
5. I am thinking of ways to possibly on-body carry. Though I am quick with my draw, it is adding two to three seconds that might not be there if I was on-body.
I really appreciate all the input, and once I master my draw technique plus dry firing, I will head back to the range for some actual target practice.
To make a long story short, I was nitpicked by the Rangemaster to the point that I left without firing a shot.
I practiced my conditions and my draw at home, empty, at an exterior wall with a garage behind it.
I realized a few things right away:
1. The bag I was using, although very carry-friendly, was not friendly enough. I immediately bought a different one.
2. My Walther (which I really love, BTW) has a half-cock safety. Who knew? I love this fact.
3. I will always carry one in the chamber. As someone pointed out, I may not always have two hands. And as I practiced, this became even more apparent.
4. Yes, my safety DID become much more manageable with use. Though I still prefer chambered, half-cock, no safety.
5. I am thinking of ways to possibly on-body carry. Though I am quick with my draw, it is adding two to three seconds that might not be there if I was on-body.
I really appreciate all the input, and once I master my draw technique plus dry firing, I will head back to the range for some actual target practice.
rudiepop
New member
Having a weapon not ready to shoot in a handbag is FAR better than not having one at all. I know a guy who prefers to carry that way with an IWB holster and he has less than a half second difference in drawing it and pulling the slide as opposed to pulling it ready to shoot and hitting with accuracy. He is comfortable with that and the fact that he may have one arm incapacitated and not be able to rack it in a gunfight. I am not really cool with that personally. If you are going to be buying a new bag you may want to consider one made for CCW that you would be more comfortable carrying loaded. My wife usually carries a S&W 38 airweight, all you gotta do is pull the bang stick. However she sometimes carries my XD 9mm sub but she carries it in my IWB holster and attaches it to a pcket inside her purse She does it this way so that the trigger is covered. She doesn't like it ready to fire just laying in her purse. Whatever you do ... carry the gun. Preferably ready to rock n roll
Treo
Bullet Proof
Apparently we're both members of NavyLT's gang of trolls
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