Home defense

I had the same dilemma as the OP. My wife is 5'2" and weighs about 130. She was able to shoot both a 12 GA and a 20GA as part of our initial gun class. The 20 Ga was hard for her to handle. It was to long and the recoil was uncomfortable for her. The 20GA was a youth model and fit her well. She preferred the 20GA. I bought myself a Mossberg 590 and she gave that another try before we bought her a shotgun of her own. The Mossberg Bantam 500 in 20GA was her choice. You will really be doing her a favor if you can take her to try both Gauges.
 
Interesting - I don't know very much about rifle and shotgun calibers / gauges but am starting to learn. I do know what 22, 22lr, and 22 magnum are. I came across these shotgun / rifle combo's while googling shotguns and they call 410 a 'gauge' :

Link Removed

So... maybe some of you could help educate some of us who don't know much. Since 410 is a bore and not gauge, does this mean rifles come in 410 bore in different gauges (12, 20,etc. gauges). Or is it a bore specific to a certain gauge, or a rifling bore for rifles and not shotguns? If I understand these Rossi combo's right - the first rifle on the list is a 410 / 22 combo- this should mean one barrel shoots 22 caliber ammo and the other shotgun shells. Is it likely I would choose what gauge I wanted with the combo, or is the 410 bore made for a specific gauge ?
The 410 is somewhat unique in that it's the only shotgun designated by it's bore rather than by it's gauge, though it's commonly, and mistakenly, referred to as a 410 gauge. It's the smallest shotgun you'll find in the US. It actually fits in the chamber of the 45 Colt, and some 'out of the mainstream' firearms are specifically designed to use it. The bore of the 410 and gauge of the 12, 16 and 20 covers shotguns in the US, other than a few rather unusual exotic models like the 10 gauge. Pretty much all other firearms are referred to by caliber, both handgun and rifle.
 
The 410 is somewhat unique in that it's the only shotgun designated by it's bore rather than by it's gauge, though it's commonly, and mistakenly, referred to as a 410 gauge. It's the smallest shotgun you'll find in the US. It actually fits in the chamber of the 45 Colt, and some 'out of the mainstream' firearms are specifically designed to use it. The bore of the 410 and gauge of the 12, 16 and 20 covers shotguns in the US, other than a few rather unusual exotic models like the 10 gauge. Pretty much all other firearms are referred to by caliber, both handgun and rifle.

Interesting, so something like the 22 / 410 Rossi combo might be nice for a little old lady (my little woman) with arthritis, fibro, and relatively weak hands for home defense. I got her shooting a Marlin 22 and she doesn't feel any kick with that - how much more of a kick / recoil would a 410 gauge have over a 22 rifle ?
 
... Or maybe not - here's an article I found on .410 shotguns: .410 Gauge

You mean the article entitled "410 Bore"; that begins with this line-

The .410 Bore
By Chuck Hawks

The nominal bore of a .410 shotgun is.410 inch. Which is why it is properly called the .410 bore instead of the .410 gauge. ...


Pretty informative- I think the article said 7-10lbs of recoil with most 410's. I do think for a shotgun it would be a good choice for the little old lady that couldn't operate anything bigger. But, there is something to be said for a little 22lr as well. (Less recoil, more ammo capacity and with a semi-auto you get ease of use as well.

Thank's for sharing. But, you probably should use the correct title in the links.


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Thank's for sharing. But, you probably should use the correct title in the links.

Interesting - i just copied and pasted the link for the article and my computer or the website turned it into '410 Gauge'.

And, yeah, I don't know how good it would be for home defense - the guy says it's good for small birds at less than 25 yards or so.
 
I've read all the answers given to the op. But a 12 gauge lightweight single shot kicks like a mule, compared to a slightly heavier pump and a gas operated semi auto kicks a whole lot less, then we can throw in the different loads and shots to play around with the recoil some more.

Also note a lighter bullet kicks less than a heavier one for the same pistol. ( I had some range time with different bullet weight ammo over the weekend to check how my pistol would take it......sweet!)

Bottom line, like every one said, take the little lady shooting and find out what she likes before investing!

Lock 'n Load, Tapatalk!!
 
I've read all the answers given to the op. But a 12 gauge lightweight single shot kicks like a mule, compared to a slightly heavier pump and a gas operated semi auto kicks a whole lot less, then we can throw in the different loads and shots to play around with the recoil some more.
.
Also note a lighter bullet kicks less than a heavier one for the same pistol. ( I had some range time with different bullet weight ammo over the weekend to check how my pistol would take it......sweet!)
.
Bottom line, like every one said, take the little lady shooting and find out what she likes before investing!
There's a difference between simple recoil and felt recoil. The felt recoil between two firearms firing the exact same cartridge can be phenomenally different because many factors affect felt recoil. Most people who say the 12 gauge 'kicks like a mule' are thinking of firing from the shoulder when they make such a remark, and in almost all such instances they'd be proven correct. But most home defense shotguns aren't fired from the shoulder. In may cases they don't even have a stock that could be used to fire them that way. They do this so their length can be kept short to increase their utility within a home going through doors, around corners, etc. These kinds of shotguns are usually fired from a modified position between 'from the hip' and from the shoulder. Some may fire them totally from the hip, but that isn't recommended unless there's a laser or other method to improve accuracy, because hip shooting isn't inherently accurate without lots and lots of practice. Firing from this modified position keeps the elbows bent, allowing the arms to act as shock absorbers that dissipate the 'mule kick' that your shoulder would normally directly endure when shooting from the shoulder. The end result is that the felt recoil of a 12 gauge in the modified position is dramatically lower than when fired from the shoulder. Whether or not it would be low enough for a person with weakened muscles or hands could only be determined on a case by case basis. But you can't judge the utility of a 12 gauge for home defense by measuring how strong it kicks when firing from the shoulder. My wife can't fire a 12 gauge from her shoulder, but she has no trouble shooting my Mossberg 500A with a pistol grip.
 
The 410 is somewhat unique in that it's the only shotgun designated by it's bore rather than by it's gauge, though it's commonly, and mistakenly, referred to as a 410 gauge. It's the smallest shotgun you'll find in the US. It actually fits in the chamber of the 45 Colt, and some 'out of the mainstream' firearms are specifically designed to use it. The bore of the 410 and gauge of the 12, 16 and 20 covers shotguns in the US, other than a few rather unusual exotic models like the 10 gauge. Pretty much all other firearms are referred to by caliber, both handgun and rifle.

Close but not quite right Rhino. A .45 Colt round fits the .410 chamber. Not the other way around. The .410 is the longer of the two and will not fit in a gun that is designed only for .45 Colt. 16ga shotguns are a nice happy medium that fit well between 12 and 20 gauge guns. Too bad it is harder to find shells for them. As for larger gauge shotguns, they include the 10, 8, and 4 gauge. 8s and 4s do kick like mules. Size comparison picture from the web. Link Removed

And yes, I own a .410, 20ga, 16ga, 12ga, and a 10ga. But wouldn't own a 4 or an 8 due to their size.
 
More to this than the gauge. I have two 12 gauge HD shotties; a Mossy 590 decked out w/5 round butt cuff and 6 round side saddle, and a simple Remmy 870 w/no extras. The main thing I have discovered is that for home defense, the most serious limitation can be the overall length of the weapon. The Mossy is impressive and evil lookin' as Hell, but w/a 20" brl., it's a big beast and an ungainly SOB to maneuver around my old Victorian style house. The lighter 870 w/its 18.5" brl. is the handier weapon....and my Bushmaster Superlight AR15 carbine easily beats them both in the handiness department.
You prolly have enough sense to have already gone over with your wife that you don't expect her to try to "clear the house", but exactly what may be required to be safe is another big part of this and the physical layout of your home pays a huge role in this.
For example, in my situation, given the kind of house I have and its layout, it would be extremely dangerous (impossible) for me to attempt to clear my house single handed; too many double turns and if I were to start from the upstairs (the most likely start point) I'd have to negotiate a long stairway, blind and walled on both sides (Major kill zone). In my situation, the only thing that makes any sense is to sit tight and set up an ambush situation.
My point is, don't just rush out and buy a gun. Think about what exactly would be the best, safest tactical approach for your wife to adopt were she to have to defend herself at home, alone, and THEN think about what the best weapon might be.
 
Close but not quite right Rhino. A .45 Colt round fits the .410 chamber. Not the other way around. The .410 is the longer of the two and will not fit in a gun that is designed only for .45 Colt.
True. I should have been more specific. It will only fit in firearms designed for a .45 Colt that have a chamber long enough to also handle the 410. Most do not, but there are some Thompson firearms and several specialty firearms designed specifically with the purpose of handling both rounds. Some of them do so for defending against snakes and some for defense against people.
 
This thread has brought back a lot of memories. I built most of our first home; I did a really nice job, too; and I'd have been the last person to want to destroy anything inside it. (You know, like: The French glass doors, the dining room chandelier, the plumbing or wiring in the walls, the refrigerator, or TV - That sort of stuff!) So after thinking about it, and remembering Sam Giancana, I decided that if a 22 LR pistol were good enough for Sam Giancana then it was good enough for me, too. I thought hard before making this decision. I'm more than, 'decent' with a pistol; so is my wife. The distances involved would be extremely close: 10 yards at the absolute most; and, more than likely, a lot closer-in than that.

Thereafter, my nighttime weapon of choice became a long barreled, semiautomatic, Smith & Wesson 22 LR caliber pistol. (Repeatedly hitting a target, essentially, the size of a pie plate would have been ridiculously ease for me.) During the ten years that we went to bed like this I only needed to actually have that pistol in hand exactly one time; and, when the, ‘pregnant moment’ arrived, I was downstairs in the living room; and the pistol, along with two extra magazines, was upstairs in the bedroom; so, ……. .

After managing to squeak-through this event one of my wife’s older friends came to us for advice. She knew that I was, ‘into guns’. (Although I can’t imagine how?) She lived alone, had some health issues with her older bones, and felt that too many people in the neighborhood knew that she was all by herself. Me? At first I didn’t have the slightest idea what to tell her? She was afraid of guns; I knew she’d never practice the way she should; and, probably, would have no better than a 50/50 chance of hitting an attacker no matter what I recommended for her to use. After thinking about things for a while I decided that she absolutely had to learn the basics of, both, firearm safety and competent gun handling.

There weren’t going to be any, ‘multiple platforms’ or alternatives for her, no backups, and only one gun and one home defense scenario. So, with these considerations in mind I taught her how to safely handle a firearm; and I kept at it with her until I was sure that she understood. Then I began to familiarize her with the mechanics and functions of the weapon I’d chosen for her to use. (I didn’t want to confuse her; consequently, I kept things as simple and uncomplicated as possible.) I taught her how to: disassemble, assemble, load, fire, and make the weapon safe. I even showed her how to clean it! Because having her aim the weapon conventionally was not really possible, I also taught her how I wanted her to hold and point the weapon, too. The woman did so well with her safety training, and gun handling that she convinced me she was ready to buy the one and only firearm she would ever own.

Of equal importance with learning how to safely handle a gun I gave her the textbook NRA, ‘Personal Defense Inside The Home’ self-defense course - There were no frills; and, importantly, I did NOT tell her what I would do in a similar situation. Instead I taught her the textbook-approved and conventional way for her to behave. (Neither did I want her to keep the weapon in C-1. Instead I wanted her to give herself a chance to wake up, and clear her mind BEFORE beginning to operate the weapon.)

She learned to always go to bed with a: cell phone, a flashlight, a set of house keys, and a C-3 firearm underneath the far side of her bed. I didn’t want her to fool around with backup magazines or reloads because the potential to screw up was clearly present. We stayed at it until I was satisfied that she knew how to correctly insert the magazine, operate the bolt, and take the safety, both, off and on. (I did NOT want her to keep the weapon in C-1. Instead I wanted her to give herself a chance to wake up, and clear her mind BEFORE trying to operate the weapon.)

Thereafter I taught her not to ever let her curiosity get the better of her. I warned her to never go to see what had just gone, ‘bump in the night’. Instead I wanted her to always make the, ‘bump in the night’ come to her. When she was alarmed I taught her to immediately dial 911, and place the phone on its external speaker BEFORE calling out to any suspected intruder. The cell phone was to be left in the middle of the room, turned on, and connected to 911. She understood to speak in a loud clear voice while advising anyone who might be listening that she was armed, in fear of her life, ready to use deadly force; AND, after doing this, to move away from where she’d been speaking and get into her final firing position. (Where I expected her to remain absolutely silent.)

What firearm did she buy? Well, one that I continue to consider to be ideal for an older person with arthritis or another partially restrictive health issue. One that doesn’t require frequent reloading, holds a goodly number of second shots AND chances to survive, and - at room fighting distance - can be used with the stock tucked underneath the support arm and fired by simply pointing the barrel at the (preferably closing) target. Instead of trying to turn her into a, ‘domestic commando’ I discouraged her from using a tac light. I didn’t want her flashing on and off. Neither did I want her to attempt to manipulate both the tac light, and the gun, all, at the same time. She was to stay put, stay quiet, keep the cell phone connected to 911, and away from herself while she, simply, watched the hallway and door. (When the police arrived I wanted her to initially talk to them through an open window, and toss them the house keys for easy access to the home.)

One additional thing I, also, recommended is that she sleep with the hallway light on. By doing this she could still remain in substantial darkness while, at the same time, being able to clearly see whoever might be approaching her. The final thing I taught this woman was to carefully mark her target; and I put in enough range time with her to reassure myself that - at room fighting distances - she could, indeed, hit what she carefully pointed her gun at.

So, what was the gun? An AR-15 tactical carbine with: A 20 round clip,* minimal recoil, plenty of, ‘second chances’, and a realistic potential for only slight damage anywhere in and around the home. I, also, taught her to be aware of her lines and angles-of-fire. (Which every home defense AR shooter should always pay attention to BEFORE pulling the trigger.)**




NOTES:

A few years later her house did end up being robbed; and the thief (or thieves) got away with her entire pocketbook; but, happily, nobody ever came inside. This woman had the habit of coming home and placing her handbag on a cupboard just underneath a dining room window. The thief (or thieves) were aware of her habits and, simply, cut through the screen, one warm summer day, in order to get her pocketbook.

* Yeah, yeah, I know; but the NRA says that it's all right!

** We live alone; and our entire home has already been memorized and laid out in available lines and angles-of-fire. If the occasion should ever arise I’m NOT going to be ventilating the new (really big) TV, our expensive computer, or any of the kitchen appliances, refrigerator, etc. I, also, like to think that, in many instances, I’ll be able to avoid most of the plumbing and electrical lines, as well. (Surrounding neighbors aren’t a problem; we’ve only got them straight in front of us, and across the road. The sides and rear of the house are wide open.)
 
A .20 gauge can be had in a youth model which will fit most women, (I know that sounds sexist). It can be had in semi-auto, (less felt recoil) or pump. Every one knows what a shotgun rack sounds like, and there isn't much more intimidating sound, specially in the dark of night. (Well, maybe racking the slide of a 1911)
 
We/she/me have 20 ga side by side short barrel shotgun. She, wife, is 5-2. My 12 ga pump is much too large for her (in our 60's), but the 20 side by side works great. However, her preferred carry and to have is the old Smith and Wesson Model 15. What I like about the side by side is the blanks I made. I think all of the above is pretty good info except the endless gauge/bore he said I said speeches. In our area I think one could find a family member or a friend with one to try. Please let us know what she gets and post some photos.
 
My wife is 5' and right at 100#. She handles a 20 gauge just fine. She has shot a 12ga quite a bit, but prefers the lighter kick of the 20. Since she is small, a standard length shotgun is a bit of a stretch. A Remington 870 youth model fits her perfectly.
 

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