Hello, New to group.

[mperkins37]

Hello Guys / Gals,
I am considering going Concealed Carry and have been doing my research.
I own a glock model 19 & have been shooting with it for 4-5 Years, so I am comfortable with it.
Should I stick with it or go .45? Seems like the 9mm is better for conceal, but if I actually need it Stopping power would trump looks eh?
I have handled Hunting rifles since 11 or 12, & have been through Carry safety class when I was security guard in 2005 or so.
Is CCW required in AZ or not? I keep getting mixed answers, like no but it doesn't hurt?
I had one but let it expire when I stopped working Security.
BTW I am A Graphic Designer, & can cut Vinyl Logos if anybody needs anything.
Any thoughts?
623-760-7743
Mike Perkins

 

[LittleRoundGuy]

Ahh, the "Stopping Power" myth. I love to hate it. There's no such thing. Depending on the size of the person, A BG can recover from a .45 just as quickly as a 9mm. If you place your shots correctly, no matter what caliber you carry, you can end the threat.

9mm is plenty for Concealed Carry and Self defense. I carry a G19 every day and I wouldn't have anything else. It's a great gun.

Disclaimer: IANAL/TINLA applies here.

From what I understand, AZ is now Constitutional Carry. You require no permits or licenses and you can carry it as you wish. Concealed does give you the element of surprise when you need it, but you need to train that way to be come proficient.

Good luck to you!

 

[Phillip Gain]

Concealed carry does not give the element of surprise. The element of surprise can belong only to one party in a conflict. And in situations of personal defense, the element of surprise ALWAYS belongs to the attacker. (SURPRISE - I'm going to mug/rob/rape/beat/shoot you today!)

Arizona IS constitutional carry. No licenses or permits are required, and you may carry openly or concealed as you wish. There are advantages and disadvantages to both modes of carry. And you need to consider them before you make your choice.

As to stopping power, that's a big "can of worms" argument. Even the experts disagree, so you're not going to find any enlightenment here in this forum. I'll just say that 9mm IS adequate for self-defense. And I'll also say that .45 makes a somewhat bigger hole. And I'll also say that it's important to be trained well and comfortable with your carry gun.

 

[Capt Cook]

Carry, get training, join a club and practice often.
You will never regret being able to save yourself, your wife or children but you will regret it if you can't.
As far as the 9mm vs .45 goes, statistically the .45 has a very slight edge in one stop shots, about 11%. But it is only slightly better than the .22lr so if you want to go with statistics then then go ahead. I prefer a 9mm with quality ammo and more ammunition myself.

Arizona is a Constitutional Carry State so no permit is needed. You can still get a permit and that would be recognized in several states. It couldn'couldnt hurt you to get it.

 

[the dark]

Concealed carry does not give the element of surprise. The element of surprise can belong only to one party in a conflict. And in situations of personal defense, the element of surprise ALWAYS belongs to the attacker. (SURPRISE - I'm going to mug/rob/rape/beat/shoot you today!).

That seems logical, but simplistic and I don't buy it. It seems to assume one is under open threat of arms - but that is hardly always the case. It denies the complexity and interactive nature of the situation. ALWAYS? Only if one is ALWAYS unprepared, in condition white. My SA may mean I am less surprised at the "attack" - for the lack of a better term - than my attacker is at the unexpected armed response. I anticipate an attack, I look and predict when, where and from whom it might come. That is the value of training SA. I may "get inside his loop". The attacker enters this with some anticipation of an outcome - I doubt he enters expected an armed prey. Meeting force with force will always be a surprise to a predator...my prediction can violate his expectation...that is surprise.

I prefer not to think in your terms, but to each their own interpretation.

 

[The_Outlaw]

Concealed carry does not give the element of surprise. The element of surprise can belong only to one party in a conflict. And in situations of personal defense, the element of surprise ALWAYS belongs to the attacker. (SURPRISE - I'm going to mug/rob/rape/beat/shoot you today!)

.

I have to strongly disagree with you.

When four Cholos tried to rob me at a drive thru ATM in Chatsworth California one night, they where sure as hell 'surprised' when I pulled out my Ruger GP100 .357 magnum revolver.
It was 'concealed' from their eyesight when they first rolled up on me.
They blocked me in from front and back with two vehicles. The leader got out with one of his homeboys and gave me an evil sneer as if I was going to be his b*tch or something.

They just about sh*tted themselves when they realized that I was armed and ready to rock and roll.
They fled like cowardly rats.
I'll never forget the shocked look on the leaders friggin face...
It was priceless!

 

[FatCrotch]

I shot my friends ruger p89(9mm) a few times at the range. Then I immediately shot my para slim hawg .45 and didnt really notice a huge difference in recoil. What I do notice is the extreme price difference in ammunition. So it's really up to you. 9mm Speer gold dot is awesome but as previous members said .45 leaves a bigger hole. Especially gold dot, or Winchester bonded. I also like hornady zombie ammo but it seems to get stuck in the mag from the polymer inserts. not good if you have to pop off more than one round. A little lube goes a long way though to fix that problem.

 

[Chrisdrummer]

A gym buddy of mine who is a retired LEO on caliber/stopping power, "Nothing stoops the bad guys like a blood pressure of zero from multiple hemorrhages".

 

[mperkins37]

Yep when in doubt , empty out. I figured as much. I like the Glock a LOT & am Very comfortable with it. I Clean it regularly & its had a few thousand rounds through it at the range. Have a chest harness & a good setup so I think I'll go with it, Thanks. Where is the best local place for Good rounds for 9mm & .225/5.56? My other in home protection is a Panther Arms Oracle, I need to PU some ammo for it.

 

[Phillip Gain]

When four Cholos tried to rob me at a drive thru ATM in Chatsworth California one night, they where sure as hell 'surprised' when I pulled out my Ruger GP100 .357 magnum revolver.
It was 'concealed' from their eyesight when they first rolled up on me.
They blocked me in from front and back with two vehicles. The leader got out with one of his homeboys and gave me an evil sneer as if I was going to be his b*tch or something.

They just about sh*tted themselves when they realized that I was armed and ready to rock and roll.
They fled like cowardly rats.
I'll never forget the shocked look on the leaders friggin face...
It was priceless!

Maybe I should explain better. The element of surprise is an offensive tactic. Not a defensive one.

Were you not surprised, when 4 guys rolled up on you out of nowhere and blocked you in?

If you weren't surprised...that means you were expecting the attack. And the only way you could expect that sort of attack is if you had set yourself up as bait, trolling for it, eager for the chance to whip out your six-shooter and use it. Which would make you incredibly stupid, for deliberately exposing yourself to that sort of danger.

I prefer to believe they surprised you.

 

[Phillip Gain]

That seems logical, but simplistic and I don't buy it. It seems to assume one is under open threat of arms - but that is hardly always the case. It denies the complexity and interactive nature of the situation. ALWAYS? Only if one is ALWAYS unprepared, in condition white. My SA may mean I am less surprised at the "attack" - for the lack of a better term - than my attacker is at the unexpected armed response. I anticipate an attack, I look and predict when, where and from whom it might come. That is the value of training SA. I may "get inside his loop". The attacker enters this with some anticipation of an outcome - I doubt he enters expected an armed prey. Meeting force with force will always be a surprise to a predator...my prediction can violate his expectation...that is surprise.

I prefer not to think in your terms, but to each their own interpretation.

Through situational awareness, you may very well deny the element of surprise to an attacker. If you do, then the element of surprise no longer exists in the situation. An attacker (unless he is incredibly stupid beyond human belief) knows on some level that a defensive response, or even an armed defensive response from his victim is possible. You're not surprising him with it. You may scare the crap out of him, but you're not surprising him.

 

[The_Outlaw]

Maybe I should explain better. The element of surprise is an offensive tactic. Not a defensive one.

Were you not surprised, when 4 guys rolled up on you out of nowhere and blocked you in?

If you weren't surprised...that means you were expecting the attack. And the only way you could expect that sort of attack is if you had set yourself up as bait, trolling for it, eager for the chance to whip out your six-shooter and use it. Which would make you incredibly stupid, for deliberately exposing yourself to that sort of danger.

I prefer to believe they surprised you.

I understand what you are saying.

To answer your question,
Yes, I was completely surprised at the unexpected encounter.
I shudder to even think about what could have happened to me if I was unarmed.

I think that I was much better prepared to handle that ATM situation because of another bad experience that I went through years earlier when I was a victim of armed robbery at my uncles liquor store at the age of 17.
A large knife was held to my neck and then to the back of my head in that encounter. I'll never forget the look in the eyes of that bad guy and his partner who was armed with a handgun, it scared the living $h*t out of me and I thought that I was dead meat for sure.
I remember feeling so stupid and helpless as I cowered on the floor with that huge knife poking the back of my neck.

After that terrible ordeal was over, I vowed to myself that I would never ever become a victim again.