apvbguy
New member
1. why were they there
2. if they were not there in an official capacity why were they allowed to be armed?
Got denied entry into gun show today
- Thread starter Buster04
- Start date
1. why were they there
2. if they were not there in an official capacity why were they allowed to be armed?
dusterdude
New member
To me this isnt a rights issue,its a being free from having an idiot accidentjy shoot me while playing with his gun/holster issue.
Warbirds
New member
Our gun shows have fish and wildlife handing out pamphlets, proclamations, and outdoor related materials.
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Peggy Reist
New member
The two I saw were just walking around, but they did have a booth there too. And the always-present cops are also armed even if they just seem to be browsing.
wolf_fire
New member
First, my comment was in a direct reply to Peggy Reist who encountered a sign in Kansas recently that allowed concealed carry in the gun show and not open carry. Therefore, it had nothing to do with the gun show you attended.
Second, please cite for me how many times an open carrier who is not a police officer has had his/her firearm taken from him/her. I hear this argument often, but yet no one can tell me the regularity with which this happens, or even at all. I've looked it up and the only one I could find is an open carrier had his gun stolen by a thug at gun point.
However, here are a few articles about the so-called trained people in weapon's retention that will be able to carry openly at that Kansas Gun Show:
Washington Post: More Cops Killed by Their Own Gun Than "Straw Purchases" | The Truth About Guns
Cases of Officers Killed by Their Own Guns Likely Will Not Change R.I. Policies
So my point is/was, if the police are allowed, then why not everyone else?
michaelclarke14
New member
same thing happened with me.
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ezkl2230
Guest
Sorry, but that report could not POSSIBLY have been correct. After all, it is an article of faith in all of the OC/CC debates that the bad guys would NEVER even THINK about taking on an open carrier, they ALWAYS avoid open carriers. They see the OC firearm and run screaming into the night...:blink:
And the equal article of faith that it is the "element of surprise" that protects the person carrying concealed.
h34r:
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Bikenut
Guest
I can't speak for other folks who get into that CC v OC debate but I can suggest that a startling and remarkable lack of verifiable instances where OC'ers have been attacked in all the decades that open carry has been practiced in just Arizona can point to evidence that open carriers rarely are attacked. After all.... if OC causes a person to be "targeted" for gun grabs and/or attacks by bad guys wouldn't it be easy to find reports of actual factual incidents just with a simple google search where this has happened with some degree of frequency instead of the occasional and extremely rare instance? Wouldn't the media gleefully jump on any incident involving an open carry gun grab/attack?
But while it is extremely rare for an open carrier to be attacked open carry still is no guarantee a person won't be attacked because the bad guy saw the gun and ran away... yet CC is also no guarantee that the supposed "element of surprise" thingy will make a bad guy stop his attack and run away either.
gundaddypv
New member
Now THAT is a sign I could live with!
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ezkl2230
Guest
I just sent the MI based Original Gun and Knife Show a letter asking them to consider implementing a policy similar to a national chain's that states that carriers may carry in accordance with applicable state laws but must check in and safe their firearm if they wish to sell it or unholster it to try out accessories. We'll see if I even get a response.
chilipeppernorm
New member
There's one aspect I don't believe has been covered, and that is not all gun owners and carriers (CC or OC) are equal from a safety standpoint. We could assume that those who visit here and post may be quite safe and competent and above the norm, but that sure doesn't hold true across the general gun public spectrum in my experience. Who among us has never encountered a legal gun owner who was entirely ignorant or uncaring of the 4 cardinal weapon safety rules: never checking the chamber for a round, covering people in all directions with the muzzle, finger in the trigger guard on the trigger, completely unaware of what's directly downrange of their muzzle. Regardless of how you choose to deal with them, warn, educate, disarm (this would probably constitute an assault charge), or simply leave their presence, they remain a safety hazard. In short, some who can legally own or possess a weapon have no damn business doing so.
I have no research or valid statistics to support the following, but for me logic would suggest that a gun show may end up with a larger than normal concentration of above said individuals at any given time during the show. Therefore to mitigate the risk the promoters and those who insure them hold that unloading and securing an open breech is the safest course for all attending, as there is no way to assess individual competence or safety training. Once you're on the parking lot and in the general public, do as you will. This stance is not an affront from my personal perspective. Those who believe this an abridgment of their rights can either can either sneak a loaded weapon on the premises and accept the risk of doing so, or simply choose to not attend.
I have no research or valid statistics to support the following, but for me logic would suggest that a gun show may end up with a larger than normal concentration of above said individuals at any given time during the show. Therefore to mitigate the risk the promoters and those who insure them hold that unloading and securing an open breech is the safest course for all attending, as there is no way to assess individual competence or safety training. Once you're on the parking lot and in the general public, do as you will. This stance is not an affront from my personal perspective. Those who believe this an abridgment of their rights can either can either sneak a loaded weapon on the premises and accept the risk of doing so, or simply choose to not attend.
That aspect has been covered, but you spelled it out more clearly and directly. That aspect, when previously mentioned, was summarily dismissed by certain posters, and probably will be dismissed again. The fact certain people cannot see what you point out, proves your point IMHO.
Who they have pulling security is a separate issue, and I know of at least some LE departments I would steer clear of, due to excessive Barney Fife syndrome.
But I also know a couple departments I would be cool with. I would also be cool with a couple of private firms I have worked with.
If I don't like the security somewhere, I go elsewhere.
But I also know a couple departments I would be cool with. I would also be cool with a couple of private firms I have worked with.
If I don't like the security somewhere, I go elsewhere.
RagenFlac
New member
No matter how you spin it, our 2A rights are always checked somewhere which is bad. What I see in this forum are people willing to be disarmed for entertainment and personal want. Personally I got my CCL so I could protect myself. If a business wants me to disarm myself to buy from them then too bad. If I have to go unprotected to go into their store then they just lost my patronship. There are plenty of places to go to buy what I need that are 2A friendly. AND don't fool yourself if you think you're safe at a gun show without your gun because of the presence of LEO's, a few of you on this forum have stated they would secretly carry their loaded gun into a show so what stops a crazed maniac from doing the same? Especially if they know these gun shows disarm their patrons? I choose not to go to gun shows because they disarm responsible law abiding citizens and because of the chance that some nut case could come in guns a blazing and take people out before law enforcement can even react.
I don't give up my rights to anyone who wants my business but has no problem disarming me. If everyone who legally carried a gun avoided these places they may just change their minds when their businesses begin to suffer lost revenue because of their poor decision.
I don't give up my rights to anyone who wants my business but has no problem disarming me. If everyone who legally carried a gun avoided these places they may just change their minds when their businesses begin to suffer lost revenue because of their poor decision.
lostinataxi
New member
I agree. I can't remember if guns aren't allowed or not where I live, it's been so long since I've gone to a gun show; at least seven or more years. I quit going because I didn't want to pay entrance fees to something where people were just selling things. It would be like paying an entrance fee to go to my local gun shop, whether or not I even bought anything. It didn't make sense to me so I stopped going! I might go to see if they are telling people they can't carry inside just out of curiosity the next time one is held near me, but I won't go in no matter what. I can buy guns from other places that A) don't charge entrance fees, and B) don't restrict my carry rights.
