God & the Bible, squaring belief with reality

[tcox4freedom]

From an email-

The Truth About the Bible
I thought this was so interesting,
I had to pass it along.
Is the Bible the Inspired Word of God?

By Jason Carlson and Ron Carlson, 5/25/11

During a question and answer session at a recent speaking engagement, a university student asked me, "Why do you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God?"

Now this is a very interesting question, and probably one of the most important questions any Christian could ask themselves. What is so special, so unique about the Bible that Christians believe it is literally the inspired word of God?

In answering this student's question, I encouraged him to consider the following facts about the Bible. First, the Bible is not just one single book. This is a more common misconception than many people realize, especially with people who do not come from a Judeo-Christian background. Rather than being a single book, the Bible is actually a collection of 66 books, which is called the canon of scriptures. These 66 books contain a variety of genres: history, poetry, prophecy, wisdom literature, letters, and apocalyptic, just to name a few.

Second, these 66 books were written by 40 different authors. These authors came from a variety of backgrounds: shepherds, fishermen, doctors, kings, prophets, and others. And most of these authors never knew one another personally.

Third, these 66 books were written over a period of 1,500 years. Yet again, this is another reminder that many of these authors never knew or collaborated with one another in writing these books.

Fourth, the 66 books of the Bible were written in 3 different languages. In the Bible we have books that were written in the ancient languages of Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic; a reflection of the historical and cultural circumstances in which each of these books were written.

And finally, these 66 books were written on 3 different continents: Africa , Asia , and Europe . Once again, this is a testament to the varied historical and cultural circumstances of God's people.

Think about the above realities: 66 books, written by 40 different authors, over 1,500 years, in 3 different languages, on 3 different continents. What's more, this collection of books shares a common storyline - the creation, fall, and redemption of God's people; a common theme - God's universal love for all of humanity; and a common message - salvation is available to all who repent of their sins and commit to following God with all of their heart, soul, mind and strength.

In addition to sharing these commonalities, these 66 books contain no historical errors or contradictions. God's word truly is an amazing collection of writings!

After I had shared the above facts with this student, I offered him the following challenge.

"If you do not believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, if you do not believe that the Bible is of a supernatural origin, then I challenge you to a test, I challenge you to go to any library in the world, you can choose any library you like, and find 66 books which match the characteristics of the 66 books in the Bible. You must choose 66 books, written by 40 different authors, over 1,500 years, in 3 different languages, written on 3 different continents. However, they must share a common storyline, a common theme, and a common message, with no historical errors or contradictions." I went on to say, "If you can produce such a collection of books, I will admit that the Bible is not the inspired word of God."

The student's reply was almost instantaneous, he emphatically stated, "But that's impossible!"

It truly is impossible, for any collection of human writings. However, the Bible passes this test. The Bible contains 66 books, written by 40 different authors, over 1,500 years, in 3 different languages, on 3 different continents, with no historical errors or contradictions. The entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, bears the mark of Divine inspiration.

The next time you encounter someone who asks you why you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, try sharing this challenge with them. Better yet, don't wait until you're asked, just go ahead and share this challenge with a friend today. You don't even have to mention the Bible up front, just ask them if they think it would be realistic to assemble such a collection of books. After they say, "But that's impossible!" you've got a ready-made opportunity for sharing the truth of God's word with somebody!

In God We Trust.

It's funny how some people only wish to argue. But as of this post, not one single unbeliever hasn't offered any proof to their argument. So, here's another challenge to them "IF" they have the guts to take it up!

Find 66 different books, written by 40 different authors, over a period of 1500 years, on several different continents in 3 different languages pointing to the PROOF of no God.

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[nosreme]

...as of this post, not one single unbeliever hasn't offered any proof to their argument. So, here's another challenge to them "IF" they have the guts to take it up!

Find 66 different books, written by 40 different authors, over a period of 1500 years, on several different continents in 3 different languages pointing to the PROOF of no God.

Sorry, but "66 different books, written by 40 different authors, over a period of 1500 years, on several different continents in 3 different languages" hardly proves anything, and especially doesn't constitute proof of god. The burden is on those who assert the existence of god. A recitation of a bunch of old books written over time proves only the enduring nature of faith-based myths, and does NOT prove much if anything else. There is no burden of disproof on anybody. When believers can come up with credible evidence--not the usual pseudo-evidence," then non-believers will have some kind of responsibility--but not until that happens (and it never has, and of course never will).

 

[lsmurphy]

From an email-



It's funny how some people only wish to argue. But as of this post, not one single unbeliever hasn't offered any proof to their argument. So, here's another challenge to them "IF" they have the guts to take it up!

Find 66 different books, written by 40 different authors, over a period of 1500 years, on several different continents in 3 different languages pointing to the PROOF of no God.

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-

Well for that matter........
.
I have come to view the bible as one book, not a collection of books. Not of the OT and the NT but of ONE Testament.

 

[lsmurphy]

Sorry, but "66 different books, written by 40 different authors, over a period of 1500 years, on several different continents in 3 different languages" hardly proves anything, much less than proof of god. The burden is on those who assert the existence of god. A recitation of a bunch of old books written over time proves only the enduring nature of faith-based myths, and does NOT prove much if anything else. There is no burden of disproof on anybody.

You've not even read the bible, Emerson.
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And it was NOT written for you anyway.
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Why do you continue to show your ignorance?.......wait, I know why..........heathen.

 

[tcox4freedom]

Sorry, but "66 different books, written by 40 different authors, over a period of 1500 years, on several different continents in 3 different languages" hardly proves anything, and especially doesn't constitute proof of god. The burden is on those who assert the existence of god. A recitation of a bunch of old books written over time proves only the enduring nature of faith-based myths, and does NOT prove much if anything else. There is no burden of disproof on anybody. When believers can come up with credible evidence--not the usual pseudo-evidence," then non-believers will have some kind of responsibility--but not until that happens (and it never has, and of course never will).

I didn't think you would take up the challenge when it's a whole lot easier to remain blissfully ignorant.

How do you know the Bible is full of "myths"?

I, Ringo & others have shared resources & references both scientific & historical that support the validity of the Bible & the TRUTH of scripture. Yet, you bring ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to this thread except a bunch of hot air; spewed from your own unhappiness, anger & ignorance.

If you were really an intelligent person that really didn't fear your own eternal damnation, you would take up the challenge set before you; so you could bring some sensibility to the discussion. But, because you lack the ability to seek things for your self and accept the TRUTH, you depend on ILLOGICAL rantings completely lacking in any substance of truth whatsoever.

Just because you believe something to be mythical & untrue doesn't mean it isn't TRUE. Truth is NOT relative in it's nature. There are only two sides to any story. (One is TRUTH & the other is falsehood.)

Just because you believe in a FALSEHOOD and call TRUTH a "myth", does NOT make you right. To be right in your thinking, your mind needs to be open & transformed by TRUTH. Yet, you remain "closed-minded" in unbelief & ignorance because you refuse to seek knowledge that might not agree with your mental paradigm.

It is the epitome of hypocrisy to believe someone else "closed-minded" or "narrow-minded" when you (yourself) refuse to consider the possibility of absolute TRUTH to a particular point of view or belief system. Proof has been laid before you and others here. By refusing to accept what we have offered, is only a confirmation of your "acceptance" and "contentment" with your own ignorance.

Some of us have studied, researched and discovered the TRUTH for ourselves. That TRUTH has set us free and given us untold blessings & joy.

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[nosreme]

I didn't think you would take up the challenge when it's a whole lot easier to remain blissfully ignorant.

How do you know the Bible is full of "myths"?

I, Ringo & others have shared resources & references both scientific & historical that support the validity of the Bible & the TRUTH of scripture. Yet, you bring ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to this thread except a bunch of hot air; spewed from your own unhappiness, anger & ignorance.

If you were really an intelligent person that really didn't fear your own eternal damnation, you would take up the challenge set before you; so you could bring some sensibility to the discussion. But, because you lack the ability to seek things for your self and accept the TRUTH, you depend on ILLOGICAL rantings completely lacking in any substance of truth whatsoever.

Just because you believe something to be mythical & untrue doesn't mean it isn't TRUE. Truth is NOT relative in it's nature. There are only two sides to any story. (One is TRUTH & the other is falsehood.)

Just because you believe in a FALSEHOOD and call TRUTH a "myth", does NOT make you right. To be right in your thinking, your mind needs to be open & transformed by TRUTH. Yet, you remain "closed-minded" in unbelief & ignorance because you refuse to seek knowledge that might not agree with your mental paradigm.

It is the epitome of hypocrisy to believe someone else "closed-minded" or "narrow-minded" when you (yourself) refuse to consider the possibility of absolute TRUTH to a particular point of view or belief system. Proof has been laid before you and others here. By refusing to accept what we have offered, is only a confirmation of your "acceptance" and "contentment" with your own ignorance.

Some of us have studied, researched and discovered the TRUTH for ourselves. That TRUTH has set us free and given us untold blessings & joy.

-

The burden of proving those things as true is still on the proponent(s).

 

[lsmurphy]

The burden of proving those things as true is still on the proponent(s).

The bible defines 'faith'.
.
State the verse.
.
Secondly, define the verse.
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Do it!
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Let's see just how well read and educated you are.

 

[nosreme]

The bible defines 'faith'.
.
State the verse.
.
Secondly, define the verse.
.
Do it!
.
Let's see just how well read and educated you are.

"Faith" defined: a feeling or inner sense that's required to justify belief in a proposition which is unsupportable by even a scintilla of evidence, experience, or common sense. Not uncommonly, faith is manufactured in order to get to the desired end, but sometimes can be honestly felt by minds which have trouble coping with reality and rationality."

Regurgitating a definition from a bible is a test of educational and literacy credentials...exactly how?

 

[lsmurphy]

"Faith" defined: a feeling or inner sense that's required to justify belief in a proposition which is unsupportable by even a scintilla of evidence, experience, or common sense. Not uncommonly, faith is manufactured in order to get to the desired end, but sometimes can be honestly felt by minds which have trouble coping with reality and rationality."

Regurgitating a definition from a bible is a test of educational and literacy credentials...exactly how?

Clearly you do not know.
You did not answer the question.
Uneducated, Emerson, as I stated before.

 

[lsmurphy]

Here, Emerson, I'll do half the work for you-
.
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
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Now explain further.......the other half of the question.

 

[duke7595]

?????????????????????

It's yhwh

wrong again check out the manuscripts ,, this reply was only to protect the correct spelling, no directed to or for you.

 

[Ringo]

The burden of proving those things as true is still on the proponent(s).

An atheist can be led to truth, but an atheist cannot be made to think. ​

The Bible is a book that dares to predict the future many times over. No other religious book does that. Why? Because if it did, it would prove that it was not inspired. But the Bible makes predictions again and again, because it is indeed inspired. The basic test of the true God and the true faith and the true prophet is they can predict the future. The Bible does all of that and more, not once, not twice, but hundreds of times with 100 percent accuracy. Prophecy, which reveals God's plan in advance, is the missing element in all sacred scriptures of the world's religions, because false gods cannot provide it. Prophecy is not to be found in the Koran, the Hindu Vedas, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Book of Mormon, the sayings of Buddha, the writings of Mary Baker Eddy. In contrast, prophecy comprises about 30 percent of the Bible. Significantly, the God of the Bible identifies Himself as the One who accurately foretells the future and makes certain that it happens as He said it would. In fact, God points to prophecy as the irrefutable evidence of His existence and the authenticity of His Word: "For I am God, and there is none else. ...Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, my counsel shall stand..." (Isa:46:9-10

There are two major topics of prophecy, both of which must be studied if one is to have any understanding of the Bible: 1) Israel; and 2) the Messiah, who would come to Israel and through her to the world. These two major topics involve specific fulfillments of prophecy that cannot be denied and which prove God's existence. Exactly as His prophets foretold, because of their sin God scattered His people, Israel, throughout the entire world (Lev:26:33; Deut 4:27; 32:26; 1 Kgs 14:15; Neh:1:8; Jer:9:16; 49:32, etc.). Yet, amazingly, they remained an identifiable ethnic and national entity. That is miraculous. Moreover, for 2,500 years since the Babylonian captivity, and for 1,900 years since the Diaspora at the destruction of Jerusalem in a.d.70, in fulfillment of other prophecies, the scattered Jews have been hated and persecuted as Satan has sought to destroy them. Yet they survived—another miracle. Furthermore, and just as the Bible declared (Jer:30:3,10-11; 31:8-10; Eze:11:17; 28:25, etc., etc.), the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob have been brought back to their own land after all these centuries. Such an incredible event has never happened to any other people and certainly has no natural explanation. The Bible prophecies are so specific and numerous that no one can deny Israel's rebirth as a miracle of God. But that is not all!

The prophets also declared that in the last days Jerusalem would have a special importance for all nations. Not only would this occur during the Millennium when Christ was reigning there on David's throne, but just prior to His return. Zechariah:12:2-3 declares, "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about....I [will] make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people...." God was saying that the eyes of the entire world would be upon Jerusalem for fear of what would occur there. At the time of this prophecy, about 2,500 years ago, Jerusalem was in ruins and surrounded by desolate desert and swamp. Nothing could have been more ludicrous than to suggest that one day the concerned attention of a modern world of more than 5 billion people would be focused upon this unlikely place. Yet that has been fulfilled precisely as foretold! Whether atheist or believer, Hindu, Muslim or Jew, all mankind knows that the next world war, when it occurs, will break out over Jerusalem! Israel comprises only one-sixth of 1 percent of the land occupied by the Arabs. Why the great concern today over this tiny piece of arid real estate that lay abandoned for centuries? Yes, Jerusalem is sacred to Catholics, Muslims and Jews. But that doesn't explain why the whole world is concerned with establishing peace in the Middle East. Moreover, neither Catholics nor Muslims existed when these prophecies were made.

The Bible's prophecies concerning the Jews, Jerusalem and Israel are specific, preposterous, and impossible—yet fulfilled. There is no other explanation than that God is the author of the Bible, the Jews are His chosen people, and Israel is their land—and Jesus is the Christ. In view of this great "sign" that God has given to the world, can anyone honestly be an atheist? Or can anyone deny that Jesus Christ is the only Savior? His advent was prophesied, as well, by the same prophets and is intimately connected to Israel. All that the prophets foretold concerning the coming Messiah was fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth—and the early church used that fact in proclaiming the gospel (Acts:2:22-36. So should we.

 

[skinnyb82]

Clearly you do not know.
You did not answer the question.
Uneducated, Emerson, as I stated before.

Uneducated? What does reciting something chapter, line, and verse have to do with education? I can't even regurgitate the standard unqualified opinion yet somehow I managed to pass the AUD portion of the CPA exam (and the FAR, REG, BEC, and Ethics sections) where I had to...yep, regurgitate the standard unqualified audit opinion verbatim. Use it or lose it and I don't use it.

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[lsmurphy]

Uneducated? What does reciting something chapter, line, and verse have to do with education? I can't even regurgitate the standard unqualified opinion yet somehow I managed to pass the AUD portion of the CPA exam (and the FAR, REG, BEC, and Ethics sections) where I had to...yep, regurgitate the standard unqualified audit opinion verbatim. Use it or lose it and I don't use it.

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For the week or so that I have been here Emerson has done nothing but spew his Leftist anti-christ talking points. He has presented nothing of value.
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I suppose you support the same worthlessness?

 

[nosreme]

For the week or so that I have been here Emerson has done nothing but spew his Leftist anti-christ talking points. He has presented nothing of value.
I suppose you support the same worthlessness?

You see, skinny82, it's OK to spew pro-religion, "pro-christ" stuff nonstop, but it's not OK to take a different position. That's a lot like what it's like in muslim countries and what it was like all over Europe in the dark ages, when anything not excessively and unrelentingly pro-religion was considered blasphemy, and organized religion simply killed off those who didn't toe the line or who otherwise were threats to the faith power structure.

 

[skinnyb82]

For the week or so that I have been here Emerson has done nothing but spew his Leftist anti-christ talking points. He has presented nothing of value.
.
I suppose you support the same worthlessness?

Well thank you for casting the first stone with that wonderfully crafted ad hominem attack that is, well, simply stupid. The truth is that you know nothing more about me than what you've read in this thread otherwise you wouldn't have made that comment...or you're just a prick. I simply made a comment that you can't call someone uneducated for not being able to regurgitate information. Nothing more, nothing less. I think that others here would testify on my behalf in regard to my respect and tolerance for the beliefs and viewpoints of others. You would find that said "testimony" directly contradicts your conjecture that I'm some left-wing God-hater. Quite the contrary actually. Maybe you should use the search function before attacking someone's most closely held beliefs with what I can only describe as a load of crap. People like you, those who personally attack someone for simply stating a matter of fact, are just as bad as those who would denegrate someone's religious or political views on a personal level with the knowledge that said person holds those beliefs, which you also just tried to do to me. Get off your high horse and dump the "holier than thou" attitude because it's jackholes like you who perpetuate stereotypes.

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[skinnyb82]

You see, skinny82, it's OK to spew pro-religion, "pro-christ" stuff nonstop, but it's not OK to take a different position. That's a lot like what it's like in muslim countries and what it was like all over Europe in the dark ages, when anything not excessively and unrelentingly pro-religion was considered blasphemy, and organized religion simply killed off those who didn't toe the line or who otherwise were threats to the faith power structure.

Precisely. But if you're on a pro-gun, pro-2a board where the majority of its members are Christians, you better have an argument. If you don't like what others have to say, you shouldn't have opened your trap. Plain and simple. Consider the forum in which you plan on voicing your opinions before you open your mouth. I don't attend church but I do not share your beliefs. And do not interject me into this debate. I hold views that are, for lack of a better term, unique. However I do not put down the beliefs of others simply because theirs do not align with mine. That is narrow-minded. Ask yourself, can you say with 100% certainty, not a single shred of doubt in your mind, that NOTHING else exists and we just fade to black? That there is no such thing as a soul and that we just return to the Earth when we go? Can you unequivocally state that's what happens? What about human consciousness? Is that just neurons firing? Good and evil...you think that people are good just because of religion "scaring" them and that people are evil because their daddy was an alcoholic or they've got a screw loose? You believe that we live, we die, everything done in between is of little or no consequence sans some major contribution to science or what have you. Now personally I have a huge problem squaring away that one. I don't believe in literal interpetation of the Bible but it doesn't mean I don't believe in God. It just means that I've made a choice but that doesn't mean I disrespect the deeply held beliefs of others because I could be 100% wrong. The only people who truly know are those who are no longer with us. We'll all find out some day but I'm in no hurry.

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[lsmurphy]

Well thank you for casting the first stone with that wonderfully crafted ad hominem attack that is, well, simply stupid. The truth is that you know nothing more about me than what you've read in this thread otherwise you wouldn't have made that comment...or you're just a prick. I simply made a comment that you can't call someone uneducated for not being able to regurgitate information. Nothing more, nothing less. I think that others here would testify on my behalf in regard to my respect and tolerance for the beliefs and viewpoints of others. You would find that said "testimony" directly contradicts your conjecture that I'm some left-wing God-hater. Quite the contrary actually. Maybe you should use the search function before attacking someone's most closely held beliefs with what I can only describe as a load of crap. People like you, those who personally attack someone for simply stating a matter of fact, are just as bad as those who would denegrate someone's religious or political views on a personal level with the knowledge that said person holds those beliefs, which you also just tried to do to me. Get off your high horse and dump the "holier than thou" attitude because it's jackholes like you who perpetuate stereotypes.

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I take your statement at face value.
I don't need to nor would I 'research' your belief system. IOWs, no one impresses me.

 

[tcox4freedom]

Precisely. But if you're on a pro-gun, pro-2a board where the majority of its members are Christians, you better have an argument. If you don't like what others have to say, you shouldn't have opened your trap. Plain and simple. Consider the forum in which you plan on voicing your opinions before you open your mouth. I don't attend church but I do not share your beliefs. And do not interject me into this debate. I hold views that are, for lack of a better term, unique. However I do not put down the beliefs of others simply because theirs do not align with mine. That is narrow-minded. Ask yourself, can you say with 100% certainty, not a single shred of doubt in your mind, that NOTHING else exists and we just fade to black? That there is no such thing as a soul and that we just return to the Earth when we go? Can you unequivocally state that's what happens? What about human consciousness? Is that just neurons firing? Good and evil...you think that people are good just because of religion "scaring" them and that people are evil because their daddy was an alcoholic or they've got a screw loose? You believe that we live, we die, everything done in between is of little or no consequence sans some major contribution to science or what have you. Now personally I have a huge problem squaring away that one. I don't believe in literal interpetation of the Bible but it doesn't mean I don't believe in God. It just means that I've made a choice but that doesn't mean I disrespect the deeply held beliefs of others because I could be 100% wrong. The only people who truly know are those who are no longer with us. We'll all find out some day but I'm in no hurry.

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My respect to you sir-


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[skinnyb82]

My respect to you sir-

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Thank you. I'd rather practice true tolerance of the views and beliefs of others (sans crazy crap like Brennan's view on Jihad) rather than tolerance as defined by our favorite hypocrites. Oh Lord, Leslie Marshall is on TV..."Gun owners who hunt...." *MUTE*