Concealed Carrying While In The Military

[screename116]

Hi I am a member of the Military. I used to conceal carry before I joined the Military. But I strayed away from doing so because I could not carry on post. I since deployed and went on leave. I went on leave and went to my home state of Ohio. I decided I should renew my Ohio CCW permit since you must do it in person and it would be the only time I would be home within the next few months and I was in my renewal window. I called the Sheriff's Office and their SGT. that answers questions was VERY helpful. I asked him since I am stationed in TN, work in KY but am technically a resident of OH(that is where I pay my taxes, my home of record for the military, etc). He told me yes I am technically a resident of Ohio, so I went and renewed my CCW permit. The lady that does the paperwork was slightly confused and had to ask her superior if it was ok to do so since I am renting an apartment and live in TN, but work in KY. She said yes that is ok since OH is my home of record and where I claim residency.

I never really thought about it much until I researched TN concealed carry laws more in depth. I then read that you must get a TN concealed carry permit within 6 months of becoming a TN resident. I have one vehicle registered in OH and one vehicle registered in TN. I was kind of concerned that a LEO might stop me for whatever reason and say that I am a resident since I live in TN at the moment and drive a TN registered vehicle, even though I am technically a resident of OH.

I guess I am eligible to register as a TN resident as long as I can provide a utility bill and my TN vehicle title or registration.

Legally should I bother to do so and pay $100 for a TN permit and wait and wait or just continue to claim that I am a TN resident?

TN honors my OH permit and have very similar laws, except I must notify in OH but not in TN.

I would like to hear your more experience opinions before I make my decision to either carry with my OH permit or decide to become a TN resident and appy for their CCW even though I will probably move in a year or so..

 

[screename116]

Hi I am a member of the Military. I used to conceal carry before I joined the Military. But I strayed away from doing so because I could not carry on post. I since deployed and went on leave. I went on leave and went to my home state of Ohio. I decided I should renew my Ohio CCW permit since you must do it in person and it would be the only time I would be home within the next few months and I was in my renewal window. I called the Sheriff's Office and their SGT. that answers questions was VERY helpful. I asked him since I am stationed in TN, work in KY but am technically a resident of OH(that is where I pay my taxes, my home of record for the military, etc). He told me yes I am technically a resident of Ohio, so I went and renewed my CCW permit. The lady that does the paperwork was slightly confused and had to ask her superior if it was ok to do so since I am renting an apartment and live in TN, but work in KY. She said yes that is ok since OH is my home of record and where I claim residency.

I never really thought about it much until I researched TN concealed carry laws more in depth. I then read that you must get a TN concealed carry permit within 6 months of becoming a TN resident. I have one vehicle registered in OH and one vehicle registered in TN. I was kind of concerned that a LEO might stop me for whatever reason and say that I am a resident since I live in TN at the moment and drive a TN registered vehicle, even though I am technically a resident of OH.

I guess I am eligible to register as a TN resident as long as I can provide a utility bill and my TN vehicle title or registration.

Legally should I bother to do so and pay $100 for a TN permit and wait and wait or just continue to claim that I am a TN resident?

TN honors my OH permit and have very similar laws, except I must notify in OH but not in TN.

I would like to hear your more experience opinions before I make my decision to either carry with my OH permit or decide to become a TN resident and appy for their CCW even though I will probably move in a year or so..

 

[screename116]

I also have a OH drivers license and when I got my TN purchased vehicle registered the lady at the county clerk office said I do not need to get a TN license as I still claim OH.

 

[screename116]

Also...when I bought my second vehicle in TN and went to get it registered the lady at the county clerk office said I did not need to get a TN drivers license or have my other vehicle registered in TN as I still claim OH as my state of residency.

 

[Rhino]

Your claim for Ohio residency really serves two primary purposes. One, it establishes what you consider your permanent state of residence, what the military refers to as home of record, and two, it establishes what state your state tax withholding is based on. Changing your state of residence with the military will only change your state taxes unless you take specific action to change your home of record. That's because when you end your term of duty, the military is obligated to move you back to either your home of record or to another location of residence that is closer. That's so everybody doesn't ask the military to move them to Hawaii when they separate. Your tax withholding you can change at any time based on where you live, where you own certain types of property, etc., but mainly based on where you live. Many military people change it when they get stationed in a state with no state taxes so they no longer have to pay state income tax. Your residency for a concealed carry license/permit is not the same as your residency for taxes. Your current situation apparently allows you to get a license/permit in both states, Ohio due to your military service and permanent residency, and Tennessee simply because you live there. Both are legal. Being a military retiree and having done taxes for many military members over the years, I would advise you to change your residency to Tennessee in order to stop paying state income tax, and to have a carry permit that is valid in more states than the Ohio license is. But that's just me.

 

[Rhino]

Oh, and you're not really supposed to post the same post in two different forums at the same time. You probably weren't sure where you'd get the best response I'm guessing. Don't sweat it too bad. It's a somewhat common mistake for new people.

 

[Axeanda45]

No, you do not HAVE to get a TN permit. You are considered a resident of OH, not TN. One thing you may do in your situation that most others may not do "legally" is buy firearms in TN because you live there.... and you can still buy them (talking handguns here) in OH also... One of the "perks" (for lack of a better word) of being in the military.....

 

[NavyLCDR]

and you can still buy them (talking handguns here) in OH also... One of the "perks" (for lack of a better word) of being in the military.....

I know Axeanda45 does not care about obeying laws. That being said, there are two conditions that define residency for the purposes of firearms transactions in Federal regulations, and no where is "home of record" or "paying taxes" mentioned as having anything to do with residency:
27 CFR 478.11:
eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations

§478.11 Meaning of terms.

When used in this part and in forms prescribed under this part, where not otherwise distinctly expressed or manifestly incompatible with the intent thereof, terms shall have the meanings ascribed in this section.

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, as stated in 18 U.S.C. 921(b).

In my case, my home of record has been Wyoming since 1984. I have maintained a Wyoming driver's license continuously since before then. Wyoming is my state for paying taxes, because there are no taxes in Wyoming. For the purposes of firearms transactions I have NOT been a resident of Wyoming since 1988 when I went active duty and left Wyoming because I have not been present there with the intention of making a home, nor have I had orders to Wyoming and, thus, it would be illegal for me to purchase any firearm in Wyoming (except for a rifle or shotgun from an FFL) when visiting there on leave.

At one time, for the purposes of firearms transactions, I was a resident of Connecticut and Massachusetts at the same time, because I had orders to Connecticut where I went to work every day, but lived in Massachusetts where I returned home to sleep every night. I was legal to conduct firearms transactions in either state - but still not Wyoming where my driver's license is from, where my home of record is, and where I "pay" taxes.

The above only applies to firearms transactions. CCW permits are different, because those are not governed by Federal regulations, but by state laws.

And yes, Axenda45, I know you are going to post that I am full of BS.

 

[Axeanda45]

I know Axeanda45 does not care about obeying laws. That being said, there are two conditions that define residency for the purposes of firearms transactions in Federal regulations, and no where is "home of record" or "paying taxes" mentioned as having anything to do with residency:
27 CFR 478.11:
eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations



In my case, my home of record has been Wyoming since 1984. I have maintained a Wyoming driver's license continuously since before then. Wyoming is my state for paying taxes, because there are no taxes in Wyoming. For the purposes of firearms transactions I have NOT been a resident of Wyoming since 1988 when I went active duty and left Wyoming because I have not been present there with the intention of making a home, nor have I had orders to Wyoming and, thus, it would be illegal for me to purchase any firearm in Wyoming (except for a rifle or shotgun from an FFL) when visiting there on leave.

At one time, for the purposes of firearms transactions, I was a resident of Connecticut and Massachusetts at the same time, because I had orders to Connecticut where I went to work every day, but lived in Massachusetts where I returned home to sleep every night. I was legal to conduct firearms transactions in either state - but still not Wyoming where my driver's license is from, where my home of record is, and where I "pay" taxes.

The above only applies to firearms transactions. CCW permits are different, because those are not governed by Federal regulations, but by state laws.

And yes, Axenda45, I know you are going to post that I am full of BS.

and AGAIN NAVY is talking out of his azz and has no clue...... EVERY state law I have seen concerning this ALLOWS 100% people stationed in their state in the military to BUY ANY FIREARM that a regular resident of that state would be allowed to buy... AND if you are, as in your case an actual resident (still vote in OH) of OHIO, then you can ALSO buy them there... and it is 100% legal... do NOT let Navy boy here confuse you....

 

[NavyLCDR]

From the ATF:
http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2004-08.pdf

However, the GCA’s general definition
of State of residence may also apply to some
active duty members. The general definition of
State of residence is the State in which an individual
resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she
is present in a State with an intention of making a
home in the State. If a member of the Armed
Forces maintains a home in one State and the
member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby
State to which he or she commutes each day, then
the member is considered a resident of both the
State in which his or her duty station is located and
the State in which his or her home is maintained,
and he or she may purchase a firearm in either
State.

The only place where you will find that home of record, being registered to vote, paying taxes, or even having a driver's license from a state defines your current state of residence for purchasing a firearm is in axeanda45's post. You won't find a Federal law, Federal regulation or ATF document that agrees. The definition contains two elements, and two elements only: to be present in the state with the intention of making a home there and/or location of permanent duty station.

 

[kwc]

The OP was asking for advice on CCWs, not on purchasing firearms.

- ATF addresses purchasing/transfer of firearms and the law is very clear. If stationed in TN on orders, and that is where you currently live (regardless of home of record or official residency for taxes, etc.) then the only place you can legally purchase a handgun is in TN. An OH FFL might unwittingly sell you one based on you showing an OH Driver's License, but you would still be violating ATF regulations.

- For CCW, ATF firearm rules have no bearing. Instead, state laws apply. I don't know if TN would consider you a resident or not, but many states do extend this courtesy to active duty military members. TN honors all other state's permits, which of course includes OH, so "most" of the time you should be able to carry as you would in OH. There are advantages to getting a TN permit, however, namely the ability to carry within 1000' of a school zone in TN, and the ability to carry in GA (which recognizes TN permits but does not recognize OH permits). If those advantages are important to you then get a TN permit.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Exactly correct, kwc!

 

[telpinaro]

I know Colorado will allow non-resident military members to get a resident CHP if they have orders indicating they are stationed here. Don't know if other states are the same, but it's worth asking.

 

[Fallschirmjäger]

Get yourself stationed in Georgia, :triniti: You won't need a license as long as you are in the service of the state or of the United States, and you carry under the same GA Code as our police officers do.

 

[NavyLCDR]

There are advantages to getting a TN permit, however, namely the ability to carry within 1000' of a school zone in TN, and the ability to carry in GA (which recognizes TN permits but does not recognize OH permits). If those advantages are important to you then get a TN permit.

TN rules for Handgun Carry Permits allow military members in TN to obtain a TN Handgun Carry Permit:
Link Removed
See Definitions (8)

The TN Department of Public Safety Website:
Link Removed

says this:

If a person with a handgun permit from another state decides to become a resident of Tennessee, the person must obtain a Tennessee handgun permit within six (6) months of establishing residency in Tennessee.

The driver's licensing laws in Tennessee allow a military member to establish a domicile in Tennessee (basically, claim residency) if they want to, but does not require them to.

All things taken together, I would say that in Tennessee it is optional for screename116 to obtain the TN permit, but not required.

The people to call for the definitive answer is:
Program Director, Lisa Knight
1150 Foster Avenue
Nashville, TN 37243
(615) 251-8590

 

[Doobie]

Go to JAG and let them sort it out for you. Then get it in writing. It's free.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Rhino]

The JAG most likely won't know anything about state concealed carry laws. It isn't within the purview of their practice or responsibility.

 

[Doobie]

I disagree. They are there to help soldiers navigate not just the military legal system but the civilian one as well. They can not represent you in civilian court, but they can advise. Twenty years in the Army, I sent my soldiers there numerous times and used them myself. Worst case scenario is, they tell you they can't help you. At least ask.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[kwc]

I agree the JA staff may not be familiar with state concealed carry laws, but our military lawyers are a sharp bunch and are always willing to help. They'll get smart on the issues if they don't have the knowledge yet. It's worthwhile asking for their assistance.

 

[Rhino]

I disagree. They are there to help soldiers navigate not just the military legal system but the civilian one as well. They can not represent you in civilian court, but they can advise. Twenty years in the Army, I sent my soldiers there numerous times and used them myself. Worst case scenario is, they tell you they can't help you. At least ask.

You can send them, but it's unlikely they'll be of any help. The matters you send people to the JAG for are most often topics that they're prepared for. I spent 20 years in too, and am quite familiar with military lawyers. But just as criminal lawyers aren't typically qualified in corporate law, military lawyers aren't normally going to be versed in statutes that aren't within the realm of their area of expertise. Simply put, all lawyers don't know all laws. Not even close. They specialize in certain areas, and military lawyers are no exception. You may find one who is familiar with state concealed carry laws, but they would be the exception rather than the rule. And finding a military lawyer who is well versed in the concealed carry laws of a state that is not where he is stationed or posted is going to be even more rare. You can also take it from someone who knows, Ohio concealed carry law is not easy to understand, even for lawyers. We have several in our organization. You're correct that it won't hurt to ask, but if you really want to help your troops, the JAG isn't really a good place to send them because the odds of getting help there are pretty low.