Concealed carry gun spotted and reported to LEO

[davb]

Laws & restrictions vary way to much to know all of them. They differ from state to state and city to city in some cases. You need to focus on your state and the places where your students will likely be carrying within your state. You can get yourself into trouble by trying to give too much advice.

If you have students asking questions you can't answer with certainty, tell them to do the research themselves and have them contact the proper legal authorities that can help them.

The more you post the more I'm sensing troll; or the most inept instructor to ever visit this forum. I really don't mean any offense. But, you may need to give up being an instructor for a while; or at least until you get more instruction yourself.

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You know, guys like you give forums a bad name. You use them to make yourself feel good rather than help people. You DO give offense. You've been offensive since you first responded to my question, without knowing anything about me or the background to the question. Fortunately there are others here who are more helpful. I'm not a troll. I am a certified instructor. I don't post here much and you make it less likely that I will be posting again. The question was an honest question posed by an honest student. I know the answer for my state. He heard from a friend that there are places where an accidental disclosure that one is carrying can get the carrier into trouble. I thought I would ask the accumulated wisdom of this forum about it. You need to learn some manners.


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[tcox4freedom]

You know, guys like you give forums a bad name. You use them to make yourself feel good rather than help people. You DO give offense. You've been offensive since you first responded to my question, without knowing anything about me or the background to the question. Fortunately there are others here who are more helpful. I'm not a troll. I am a certified instructor. I don't post here much and you make it less likely that I will be posting again. The question was an honest question posed by an honest student. I know the answer for my state. He heard from a friend that there are places where an accidental disclosure that one is carrying can get the carrier into trouble. I thought I would ask the accumulated wisdom of this forum about it. You need to learn some manners.


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and you need to learn the laws of your state before you teach anymore classes! :tongue:

I should say you don't post much; 6 posts in 4+years. Perhaps if you had spent more time here over the past four years you would be more educated about CC/OC laws and be a more successful instructor. I'm really not trying to be an ^$$. But, you really do come across as lacking a great deal of knowledge for a "Certified Instructor".

You have my apology if you're really on the level. There is a great deal of wisdom on this forum. I'll sit out now and allow you to continue your quest for knowledge.


Would you like to share where it is you teach?

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[Bhoffman]

I am so glad I live in Arizona.

We have had open carry for a long time.

We have had "Shall Issue" Concealed Carry Permits for many years.

We have had the opposite problem here. If some one trustworthy enough to carry a weapon openly, covered it simply by changing their means of dress, they were for some reason criminals and no longer trustworthy???

Out legislature, in it's wisdom, passed a constitutional right to keep and bear arms (open or concealed). We still have Permit Concealed Carry too. Why, The law covering permit concealed carry gives privileges to carry in parks, bars, etc. and the benefit of reciprocal rights in other states.

Arizona is rated the #1 gun friendliest state. But, PLEASE, DON'T Move here and mess things up by voting at the polls the same way you did in your "Home State". New "immigrants" to Arizona should not be allowed to vote in state or local elections for five years.

 

[av8r]

I'm very interested in this question because it is so very confusing trying to understand what you must do to be legal in different places. Unless you're a student of law or a lawyer, or have lots of time and patience to try to sort out all the laws, it's very hard to make sure you're legal wherever you may go.

The forum seems to be a good place to find out from those who live in other places what the law really is there.

For example, the Ohio folks who have posted here provided their personal experience of the law where they live, which is a great help to those who may travel there. I did not know open carry was legal in Ohio. Can someone from another state open carry in Ohio if Ohio does not recognize their state's permit?

I also discovered elsewhere that it's not legal to open carry a firearm in a vehicle in Ohio. It must be unloaded and in a case per Ohio law. So would that mean if you don't have a permit to conceal carry in Ohio, you could open carry outside your car but would have to unload it and put it in a case if you had to drive somewhere? And does this apply to non-residents or only residents? It's very confusing for anybody to try to sort all this out for their own state, much less other states.

 

[FNWylde]

and you need to learn the laws of your state before you teach anymore classes! :tongue:

I should say you don't post much; 6 posts in 4+years. Perhaps if you had spent more time here over the past four years you would be more educated about CC/OC laws and be a more successful instructor. I'm really not trying to be an ^$$. But, you really do come across as lacking a great deal of knowledge for a "Certified Instructor".

You have my apology if you're really on the level. There is a great deal of wisdom on this forum. I'll sit out now and allow you to continue your quest for knowledge.


Would you like to share where it is you teach?

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You might need reading comprehension classwork. He cleared that up in post #5 and you're still cryin' about it in #22 and practically begging for an f'ing resume. Now, man up and say you're sorry without a conditional apology. :tongue:

For Iowa:

I have not seen a provision in Iowa law where one could be charged for exposing a concealed weapon as long as it is legally carried with an Iowa Permit to Carry Weapons.

No permit is required to open carry except when in vehicles or when inside city limits.

Statute prohibits from carrying as follows:

1. The State Capitol Complex - ONLY IN THE BUILDINGS
2. Any School. Grade school or College, private or public
3. Any Hospital or Business owned by a school. (University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics and an off Campus Bookstore)
4. Any Government Facility including Army Corps of Engineers property, Soil and Water Conservation, Post Offices and any VA clinics and hospitals etc. - GENERALLY ONLY WHERE GOVT EMPLOYEES GATHER
5. Any Meskwaki Property. As per Tribal Law
6. County Courthouses. - Only courtrooms when a judge bans weapons in his/her courtroom. NO jurisdiction over the entire courthouse.
7. State Fair Grounds (excluding to and from the 4H building during a gun show) - WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE
8. The gambling floor of any casino. Prairie Meadows has a No Gun Policy throughout the grounds but if a casino does not post this then no weapons on the gambling floor. -
9. Any Gun Free Zones as so posted by private business owners or Municipal and County Officials - "ILLEGAL" IF YOU REFUSE TO LEAVE

10. WILDLIFE REFUGES

11. ON SNOWMOBILES AND ATVs [321G.13(2) and 321I.14(2)]

12. WHILE CASTING A LIGHT (HUNTING WITH ARTIFICAL LIGHT) [481A.93(1)]

13. WHILE DEER HUNTING UNLESS YOU HAVE A TAG TO TAKE A DEER WITH A HANDGUN [571 IAC 106.7(6)]

 

[wolf_fire]

You might be referring to Terry vs. Ohio which established the "articulable suspicion" standard for both official contact and "reasonable" searches.

Otherwise, I'm not sure. I've heard of similar-sounding laws, but I think they are jurisdiction-specific, as opposed to a SCOTUS ruling or a federal law.

Here in Bama the new law does state that cops can't use the open carry of a firearm as probable cause to contact or charge the carrier with disturbing the peace sans any other suspicion of an actual crime either having been committed, or about to be. But in relation to your question, both the old and new laws stipulate that if asked, a permission-slip holder must answer truthfully whether or not they're armed. Terry gives protection to both sides of that equation the way I understand it. The CC'er is protected because Terry stipulates that articulable suspicion must be present before questioning (contact) or seizure of any kind, but once that low standard is met, the cop may disarm the subject for his own protection. With that in mind, it seems like Terry v. Ohio may well be what you're thinking of, except I still think OC can be reason enough for contact/seizure in jurisdictions where that is spelled out in the law, or at least not specifically prohibited by it. I know CA's "OC" law specifically mandated that the open carry of an *unloaded* firearm gave implied consent to be questioned, have your hunk of steel and plastic inspected (seized), and/or searched by LE upon demand. Of course, carrying a *loaded* weapon by the mere subjects of state government was/is not allowed at all in most jurisdictions, and even where it is allowed, the local government/LE or the state can decree it null and void anytime they want. But I digress.....

That's the best I can come up with off the top of my head. Others may have more info on your question than I did.

Happy New Year,

Blues

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, that wasn't what I was thinking of, and dern it if I can't remember. I hate this syndrome I have of CRS.

Actually the Terry vs. OH case is the reason why the pat-down by police is called the Terry pat. Food for knowledge, in case you wondered.

Happy New Year to you and yours as well.

Wolf

 

[wolf_fire]

I'm very interested in this question because it is so very confusing trying to understand what you must do to be legal in different places. Unless you're a student of law or a lawyer, or have lots of time and patience to try to sort out all the laws, it's very hard to make sure you're legal wherever you may go.

The forum seems to be a good place to find out from those who live in other places what the law really is there.

For example, the Ohio folks who have posted here provided their personal experience of the law where they live, which is a great help to those who may travel there. I did not know open carry was legal in Ohio. Can someone from another state open carry in Ohio if Ohio does not recognize their state's permit?

I also discovered elsewhere that it's not legal to open carry a firearm in a vehicle in Ohio. It must be unloaded and in a case per Ohio law. So would that mean if you don't have a permit to conceal carry in Ohio, you could open carry outside your car but would have to unload it and put it in a case if you had to drive somewhere? And does this apply to non-residents or only residents? It's very confusing for anybody to try to sort all this out for their own state, much less other states.

If you wish other states info... then in PA, you may open carry without a license to carry, but riding in a vehicle is considered "concealing" so you would need a license for that. Because we can open carry without a permit, a slight flash of your concealed carry gun would not raise many feathers in PA.

Exception to the above. In Philadelphia, they have classified themselves as a Class I city and therefore have abolished open carry without a license. You may still open carry, but only with a license. NJ should just annex Filthadelphia and let our state run itself.

 

[tcox4freedom]

You might need reading comprehension classwork. He cleared that up in post #5 and you're still cryin' about it in #22 and practically begging for an f'ing resume. Now, man up and say you're sorry without a conditional apology. :tongue:

For Iowa:

I have not seen a provision in Iowa law where one could be charged for exposing a concealed weapon as long as it is legally carried with an Iowa Permit to Carry Weapons.

No permit is required to open carry except when in vehicles or when inside city limits.

Statute prohibits from carrying as follows:

1. The State Capitol Complex - ONLY IN THE BUILDINGS
2. Any School. Grade school or College, private or public
3. Any Hospital or Business owned by a school. (University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics and an off Campus Bookstore)
4. Any Government Facility including Army Corps of Engineers property, Soil and Water Conservation, Post Offices and any VA clinics and hospitals etc. - GENERALLY ONLY WHERE GOVT EMPLOYEES GATHER
5. Any Meskwaki Property. As per Tribal Law
6. County Courthouses. - Only courtrooms when a judge bans weapons in his/her courtroom. NO jurisdiction over the entire courthouse.
7. State Fair Grounds (excluding to and from the 4H building during a gun show) - WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE
8. The gambling floor of any casino. Prairie Meadows has a No Gun Policy throughout the grounds but if a casino does not post this then no weapons on the gambling floor. -
9. Any Gun Free Zones as so posted by private business owners or Municipal and County Officials - "ILLEGAL" IF YOU REFUSE TO LEAVE

10. WILDLIFE REFUGES

11. ON SNOWMOBILES AND ATVs [321G.13(2) and 321I.14(2)]

12. WHILE CASTING A LIGHT (HUNTING WITH ARTIFICAL LIGHT) [481A.93(1)]

13. WHILE DEER HUNTING UNLESS YOU HAVE A TAG TO TAKE A DEER WITH A HANDGUN [571 IAC 106.7(6)]

Sorry- I didn't go back & read all the previous posts.

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[kelcarry]

Varies by state and case law. Reasonable CC is not, IMO, against the law. If you cannot figure our what "reasonable" means, you should not be CC. This is really common sense and due diligence to know what your CCWP means and is all about and what its limits are all about.

 

[av8r]

If you wish other states info... then in PA, you may open carry without a license to carry, but riding in a vehicle is considered "concealing" so you would need a license for that. Because we can open carry without a permit, a slight flash of your concealed carry gun would not raise many feathers in PA.

Exception to the above. In Philadelphia, they have classified themselves as a Class I city and therefore have abolished open carry without a license. You may still open carry, but only with a license. NJ should just annex Filthadelphia and let our state run itself.

Thanks. It's so much better to hear from a native who knows rather than trying to decipher the laws. I knew about PA, but I'm not so concerned about it, have a permit there. Sounds like Ohio is pretty much the same. NJ can have NYC too.

 

[golddigger14s]

All depends on the state. For the most part the only issue is for states that don't allow OC like TX, and FL. Here in WA I can stand in the parking lot at Walmart waving my jacket open, and closed yelling "Now you see it now you don't!". (that is meant as humor) For example in the winter when I get in the grocery store, and take off my jacket because it's too hot to wear with no issue. As I said, this applies to my knowledge/experience in WA. YMMV I've heard that FL has adjusted their laws to not freak out when someone accidentally exposes. To me there is a big difference between exposure as you reach for something on the top shelf, or purposely pulling up your garment to intimidate someone. Like in that video above.

 

[Bhoffman]

I think exposing your weapon before drawing/shooting should be allowed like it is in here in AZ. Defensive Display is not the same as Brandishing.

 

[Deanimator]

For example, the Ohio folks who have posted here provided their personal experience of the law where they live, which is a great help to those who may travel there. I did not know open carry was legal in Ohio. Can someone from another state open carry in Ohio if Ohio does not recognize their state's permit?

Open carry is irrelevant to licenses in Ohio, regardless of your state of residence. There's no "license to carry openly", for anybody. It's not prohibited, so it's allowed.

Apart from statutory CPZs, anybody legally entitled to possess a handgun can carry it openly, no matter what state they're from.

 

[maybejim]

Does anyone know of any state where concealed carry is legal, and open carry is not, where the unintentional disclosure of a concealed weapon is illegal? In other words, are there jurisdictions where the legally permitted CCer must be VERY careful not to be discovered for fear of legal consequences? (We all know that there are good reasons for CC to be kept secret from others, but is fear of arrest or other legal difficulties one of them?)

BTW, I checked all the authorities I could find before posting this question and didn't find an answer.

Thanks for information!


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Kalifornia is a state that is a may issue concealed carry state with open carry illegal. Accidental disclosure in some areas could end up with legal problems.

 

[Bhoffman]

Open carry is legal in California. However, the weapon MUST be unloaded AND by carrying openly You are giving implied consent to be stopped and checked.

 

[maybejim]

Open carry is legal in California. However, the weapon MUST be unloaded AND by carrying openly You are giving implied consent to be stopped and checked.

Not any more They changed the law either last year or the year before.

 

[9mm in Eugene]

You may need to know more than just a particular State's laws regarding open and concealed carry, as the laws can vary from city to city within a state.

Where I live in Eugene, Oregon, if I pass the background check I can buy a handgun and carry it openly anywhere that is isn't specifically prohibited. However in four years I've never seen anyone openly carrying a handgun, except in their place of business which happened to be a gun shop.

To concealed carry I need a permit, currently $60 for a 5 year permit.

In Portland, 2 hours north of Eugene, openly carrying a loaded firearm is an offence that can get you 30 days in jail if you do not possess a CC permit.

 

[Deanimator]

You may need to know more than just a particular State's laws regarding open and concealed carry, as the laws can vary from city to city within a state.

Fortunately, not in Ohio.

We have state preemption. There are NO gun laws in Ohio below the state level although a few cities have tried to challenge that, Cleveland in particular. The Ohio Supreme Court stomped them into the dirt like an angry cape buffalo. Oberlin flirted with it recently, then wet themselves and backed down. The Cleveland Plain Dealer encouraged them to fight that doomed fight... without ponying up any cash for the effort. Of course the Plain Dealer has bankruptcy breathing down its own neck. Their fanatically deranged editorial stance on guns has been so popular that they're down to three days of home delivery a week. Pretty soon, their circulation is going to fall beneath that of Auto Trader and swingers magazines...