Combat Vet's Shoot Down "Good Guys With Guns" idea


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indyyy

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Combat veterans shoot down the NRA: ‘Good guy with a gun’ is based on a ‘fantasy world’

this is what scares me about fighting active shooter - if you're holding a gun cops likely to shoot you when they show up not knowing you're a good guy. Also, if there are other permit holders who decide to shoot it's hard to tell if they're with you or one of the bad guys. And no matter how much training you have, you have no clue how much the other permit holder (s). have. Anyway, please read the article before telling me I'm crazy :fie:
 

Sounds more like a "hit" piece on the NRA, guns and people who carry! I will cede that one "good" guy COULD end up shooting another "good" guy. Which why every "good" guy should ALWAYS be aware of all that is going on around them. You should not have your nose buried in your "smart" phone, book newspaper or whatever if sitting or waiting someplace for whatever you are doing that day.

I have said before that if I heard shots around a corner and then rounded the corner and saw someone on the ground with another standing over them with a gun pointing at the person on the ground, I would not draw and fire at the person standing over them. I would not know who was who or what happened. The person standing could be "good" guy, undercover cop or he could be a "bad" guy. Combat and street defense are totally different. In combat most solders wear uniforms and you can see who is who, at least most of the time. But on the street the BG's do NOT wear "black" hats and the "good" guys do NOT wear "white" hats! The "good" guy could be wearing a dark hoodie.

Bottom line is to be aware of all that is going on around you and if/when something does go down to be sure before you do something.
 
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08:23:38, "We have some planes. Just stay quiet and you'll be O.K. We are returning to the airport."
08:24:56, "Nobody move. Everything will be okay. If you try to make any moves, you'll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet."
08:33:59, "Nobody move, please. We are going back to the airport. Don't try to make any stupid moves."

08:46:30:
Link Removed



How do you want to die?
 
It's relatively easy to ascertain who the bag guys are.
They will usually be the ones shooting people indiscriminately.

Just sayin..... Ya know?
 
That's always the anti-gun cult's shtick, that the CERTAINTY of being EXECUTED is BETTER than the POSSIBILITY of being shot by ACCIDENT.
 
I agree this could be an anti gun article. Interesting they found combat vet's to quite. But I'm thinking it might be aimed more at L.E. encouraging permit holders to carry if they aren't, and citizens to take out active shooters over the past few weeks.

With record numbers of people buying guns, potential terrorist threats, as well as gang members running around the city who knows what crazy stuff will happen. We need Wild Dog to clone himself so he can save us all.

Adding a twist to what L.E. has been saying - you know how the FBI has been saying to call if you see / hear something suspicious? I heard on Fox News last night that a school had called because a muslim kid was carrying a suspicious looking clock or something that they thought looked suspicious. It turns out the school is now being sued by the state for racial profiling. So.... how much should we trust gov't and what LE asks us to do ? :hang3:
 
It's relatively easy to ascertain who the bag guys are.
They will usually be the ones shooting people indiscriminately.
Click to expand...

I go to the movie alot with my gf and envision how easy it would be for a whacko or terrorist or two to do their thing there. It's hard to see clearly because it's dark. If someone in the front got up and started shooting he's probly the bad guy. But it someone else in back then starts shooting with the crowd running, screaming, and freaking out it would be hard to know if the guy in back is with the shooter or firing at him/her because you can't see that well in the dark.

Personally, I try to sit in the back with the wall directly behind me so I can half way see what's going on.

And... until I read this article, I hadn't considered what the cops will do if the good and bad guy(s) are still shooting it out when they arrive. I always figured I would have got all the bad guys by then.:crazy_pilot:
 
indyyy said:
I agree this could be an anti gun article. Interesting they found combat vet's to quite. But I'm thinking it might be aimed more at L.E. encouraging permit holders to carry if they aren't, and citizens to take out active shooters over the past few weeks.

With record numbers of people buying guns, potential terrorist threats, as well as gang members running around the city who knows what crazy stuff will happen. We need Wild Dog to clone himself so he can save us all.

Adding a twist to what L.E. has been saying - you know how the FBI has been saying to call if you see / hear something suspicious? I heard on Fox News last night that a school had called because a muslim kid was carrying a suspicious looking clock or something that they thought looked suspicious. It turns out the school is now being sued by the state for racial profiling. So.... how much should we trust gov't and what LE asks us to do ? :hang3:
Click to expand...

Actual story is the kid with the clock kit that looked like a bomb ( that the Pres praised ) is suing. Even though when a group of test subjects were shown the same object said it was the making of a bomb. Link Removed
 
indyyy said:
this is what scares me about fighting active shooter - if you're holding a gun cops likely to shoot you when they show up not knowing you're a good guy.
Click to expand...
What scares me is that anyone is really so stupid as to still be holding their gun when the cops arrive on the scene. :rolleyes:
 
When the police arrived at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, the shooters were long gone, 14 people were killed, and 21 were injured. Does anyone still question fighting an active shooter?

As for getting shot by a responding LEO, an active shooter situation is no different from any other defensive gun use. A responding LEO doesn't know who the good and bad guys are. This is self defense basics.

There is a difference between being the target of an active shooter and being in the general vicinity. The article mentioned John Parker from the Umpqua Community College shooting, but fails to mention that he was in a different building across the campus when the shooting happened.
 
Ringo said:
What scares me is that anyone is really so stupid as to still be holding their gun when the cops arrive on the scene. :rolleyes:
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You miss my meaning. When the cops arrive I'm not standing over the dead bad guy's body with gun in hand. There are a couple of bad guys and a couple of good guys (i'm one of the good guys) still shooting at each other when the cops arrive. This is a movie theater, remember ? We don't hear sirens to announce the cops have arrived. There's a cop car in the parking lot, so there's atleast one somewhere in the building (it has 8 theaters, so who knows where he is). And he'll probably wait for back up before he comes into the room that we're shooting in - so 5 or 6 of them will open the door and join the shootout without notice.
 
indyyy said:
You miss my meaning. When the cops arrive I'm not standing over the dead bad guy's body with gun in hand. There are a couple of bad guys and a couple of good guys (i'm one of the good guys) still shooting at each other when the cops arrive. This is a movie theater, remember ? We don't hear sirens to announce the cops have arrived. There's a cop car in the parking lot, so there's atleast one somewhere in the building (it has 8 theaters, so who knows where he is). And he'll probably wait for back up before he comes into the room that we're shooting in - so 5 or 6 of them will open the door and join the shootout without notice.
Click to expand...

Which do you think is a better situation? You and the bad guy shooting at each other - or just the bad guy alone shooting at you?
 
indyyy said:
You miss my meaning. When the cops arrive I'm not standing over the dead bad guy's body with gun in hand. There are a couple of bad guys and a couple of good guys (i'm one of the good guys) still shooting at each other when the cops arrive. This is a movie theater, remember ? We don't hear sirens to announce the cops have arrived. There's a cop car in the parking lot, so there's atleast one somewhere in the building (it has 8 theaters, so who knows where he is). And he'll probably wait for back up before he comes into the room that we're shooting in - so 5 or 6 of them will open the door and join the shootout without notice.
Click to expand...

A prolonged shoot-out with a bad guy that involves responding LEOs almost always involves shooting from behind cover, unless you both are really bad shots. Once responding LEOs arrive, stay behind cover and follow the LEOs commands.

LEOs do not 'join the shootout without notice'. As I stated before, they do not know who the good and bad guys are. There will be verbal as well as visual commands. The verbal commands may be difficult to hear with all that ringing in your ears though.

There is always the chance of a clusterfcuk with responding LEOs and with other responding armed citizens. I rather take that risk than being shot by the bad guy or letting the bad guy shoot others.
 
I agree with you guys and was being a little dramatic with the theater shootout, tho stranger things have probably happened. As I said earlier, I hadn't considered cops showing up while the shootout is still taking place until these guys mentioned it in the article. The vet's in the article say the cops might take out the good and bad guys both. Ideally, they would act professionally as bofh suggests - but there are good cops and bad cops and all shades in between so who knows what one
 
indyyy said:
You miss my meaning. When the cops arrive I'm not standing over the dead bad guy's body with gun in hand. There are a couple of bad guys and a couple of good guys (i'm one of the good guys) still shooting at each other when the cops arrive. This is a movie theater, remember ? We don't hear sirens to announce the cops have arrived. There's a cop car in the parking lot, so there's atleast one somewhere in the building (it has 8 theaters, so who knows where he is). And he'll probably wait for back up before he comes into the room that we're shooting in - so 5 or 6 of them will open the door and join the shootout without notice.
Click to expand...

If you are still shooting when the police arrive either one of two things have happened. 1. The police happen to be right outside when the shooting began, or 2. you and the
BG have a hell of a lot of ammo for it will take time for the police to arrive (National average is 5-7 minutes) and shootings are typically over before that time is up.
 
A prolonged shoot-out with a bad guy that involves responding LEOs almost always involves shooting from behind cover, unless you both are really bad shots.
Click to expand...

lotta cover in theater - there are rows and rows and rows of seats
 
If you are still shooting when the police arrive either one of two things have happened. 1. The police happen to be right outside when the shooting began
Click to expand...

You must have missed the part of my post you quoted that says there's always a cop car outside the theater and so there is probably atleast 1 if not more cops on the premises. The building does house 8 separate movie theaters (or movie rooms if you prefer), so who knows which one they're in or if they're in the lobby or outside drinking a cup of coffee with a donut.
 
Indyy,

indyyy said:
lotta cover in theater - there are rows and rows and rows of seats
Click to expand...

You are confusing "Concealment for Cover" I wouldn't count on seatbacks stopping incoming rounds.

Also, police do not normally shoot without warning for fear of hitting a good guy (off duty cop) with a gun.
 
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