Cheesecake Factory

[coldwarrior]

You and you alone are yours and your family's first responder. Not the PD or FD. They regularly pick up the pieces and do after-actions...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Reba]

You and you alone are yours and your family's first responder. Not the PD or FD. They regularly pick up the pieces and do after-actions...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That's a great goal but not realistic for everyone. I know that I couldn't put out a house fire by myself, and I don't want to be the one trying to drive a loved one to the ER and perform CPR at the same time. For some people, PD and FD first responders can get to the scene quicker than a family member. Some people don't have family members available. Some people don't have the physical ability to perform first responder duties.

 

[coldwarrior]

You missed the general point. I agree that some cannot defend themselves. Generally, we need to be responsible for our own safety and security. To fully depend on government services is foolish and dangerous. It's not always about guns or the 2nd Amendment. It's about being prepared for what could happen and not putting yourself in situations or determining how you will deal with situations. You are responsible for your own safety and security. That is a basic human concept.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[mikestone967]

While I agree with Constitutional Carry for all; yeah, there is a reason why law enforcement carry firearms where others are not allowed. If you can't figure that out, you need to watch the news. LEO's are targets; whether on-duty or off, in uniform or out. Our lives are no ore valuable than your's, but we will be targeted because we are LEO. You won't. As foxytwo said below, carry concealed.

 

[mikestone967]

Why is it that civilian gun carriers that claim they have no duty to protect the public think they should be allowed to carry anywhere a police officer can? I realize that tacticly it is safer to retreat at an active shooter event, but police officers are trained to run toward the gunfire. If you were in the Cheese Factory and a shooting started what are you going to do? ...Yea, that is what I thought.

I'll do exactly what I have done before...

Move towards the sounds of gunfire.

You?

 

[mikestone967]

Ron as I pointed out in my post us citizens will be charged with a crime if we hit or injury any bystanders. The Police officers have the government blessing to shot without worry of being charged with a crime if the hit, injure or even kill a bystander. Us citizens do not get that privilege.And where do you get of thinking the police have a duty to protect you? It has been proven time and time again that they have no duty to protect you or anyone else.

Correct, Kasper......

 

[mikestone967]

You and you alone are yours and your family's first responder. Not the PD or FD. They regularly pick up the pieces and do after-actions...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Boom!

(Mic drop)

 

[corneileous]

Correct, Kasper......

According to Link Removed, it seems to me that the Castle Rock PD just got extremely lucky because they were saved by the part below highlighted in bold.

Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for a 7 to 2 majority, said that in order for her to prevail and possibly collect damages, Gonzales would have had to show that she had been denied a benefit guaranteed by state law, such as a welfare or employment benefit. Enforcement of the order, he said, would have to be a "protected entitlement."

But Colorado law has not created a personal entitlement to enforcement of restraining orders,"he said. Indeed, "it does not appear that state law truly made such enforcement mandatory" but rather gave police a considerable level of discretion in such matters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BIGJOHN621]

And in case you haven't heard, the US Supreme Court has ruled that police officers have NO duty to protect me or my family, therefore LEO only permitted to carry is about one thing and one thing only - putting LEO's lives above everyone else and keeping them upon their special citizen status pedestals.

The "Duty to Protect" and the "Duty to Act" are two very different things. Police Officers are required to act. That does not mean retreat out the door with your tail between your legs. It means attempt to stop the threat, or limit casualities to the public. Get over yourself.

Be careful painting with a broad brush. When you say Duty to Act, I will assume you are referring to activating yourself as a police officer when off duty.

While your department may require this, Realize that not all jurisdictions / departments do and some outright prohibit it except for a tightly defined set of circumstances.

This being said, you yourself are the only one that can be counted on for your own safety.

Unless there is sterility, gun free zones don't work. Even then there are security breaches that can leave those in the sterile zone vulnerable.

 

[corneileous]

You missed the general point. I agree that some cannot defend themselves. Generally, we need to be responsible for our own safety and security. To fully depend on government services is foolish and dangerous. It's not always about guns or the 2nd Amendment. It's about being prepared for what could happen and not putting yourself in situations or determining how you will deal with situations. You are responsible for your own safety and security. That is a basic human concept.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

This, is not a good explanation to this, down below in the bottom quote in bold. You sure did a good job making it sound like cops and firefighters could give a crap less about you, your family, your property and your wellbeing. I'm not gonna speak entirely for police departments but, after spending a little over 6 years on a volunteer fire department, we didn't take our time coming to your aid. I couldn't tell ya how many houses I've helped saved in the middle of the night, then having to go work my full time job all day afterwards. Having to leave my turkey dinner just as I sat down to enjoy on thanksgiving when the tones came out for a chimney fire.

I get what you are saying about us as individuals being responsible for our own safety and security but don't make it out like police departments and especially fire departments just simply don't care.

You and you alone are yours and your family's first responder. Not the PD or FD. They regularly pick up the pieces and do after-actions...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kasper]

Really? So in taking this career, one I did for 37 years, we have no right to defend ourselves because we "knew the risk". I agree, we should all have the right to carry, but your faulty logic when it comes to Leo's is pure crap. Secondly, most departments, if not laws in the states in which they exist, have policies against carrying a firearm when drinking. Further, LEOs do face the potential for civil liability or criminal charges if they hit innocent people while violating law or department policy. So, again, if you've got a problem with law enforcement, just be honest and say so. Then we can discuss things on that level.

I am being honest and Yes I do have a problem with police not being held to the laws they are in charge of enforcing.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Let's pretend for a moment that police officers do have a duty to act by law. Ok...so tell me what are the odds that there will be an armed police officer present when the criminal decides to start shooting? So tell me again why I should "get over myself" and be content with waiting for the police officer to show up while the criminal is sending bullets towards me and/or my family?

 

[Kasper]

You and you alone are yours and your family's first responder. Not the PD or FD. They regularly pick up the pieces and do after-actions...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Please do not group the Fire department in with the Police. I have yet to see a fireman or to be PC fire person claim that their lives are more important then the citizens they server, unlike the police officers who shot unarmed people because they feared for their lives and had no choice but to shoot an unarmed man so they could go home safely.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Please do not group the Fire department in with the Police. I have yet to see a fireman or to be PC fire person claim that their lives are more important then the citizens they server, unlike the police officers who shot unarmed people because they feared for their lives and had no choice but to shoot an unarmed man so they could go home safely.

And I imagine you'll love this:
https://www.statter911.com/2014/08/...ne-arrested-failing-obey-sheriff-crash-scene/

It’s happened again. This time it was in Winnfield, Louisiana. Yesterday (Saturday) morning a Winn Parish Sheriff’s Department deputy arrested Winnfield Firefighter Jonathan Johnson after Johnson refused to move the pumper he was driving. Johnson said it was parked at the crash scene in a way to protect firefighters and EMS as they dealt with a minor accident.

The sheriff’s department says they did not do anything out of the ordinary during the incident.

and this one:

Police Officer Arrests Firefighter At Accident Scene In California : The Two-Way : NPR

It's bad enough that firefighters get called out to rescue people from all kinds of situations - many times at the risk of their own lives to do so - but they also have to worry about police arresting them for it too!

 

[snowman45]

Would you care to point out where I stated what is in bold? What I said was that you should have NO MORE RIGHT to defend yourself because you are a cop than any other person's right to defend themselves. I don't have a problem with law enforcement officers. I have a problem with the pedestal that is provided for them to stand on and law enforcement officers who feel like they have special rights to stand on it.

NavyLCDR; On that we can agree. I don't believe LEO's have more rights than the public. I simply take offense to what appears to be attacks on LEO's who carry a gun to protect themselves, their families and innocent victims. It has been said that there is no duty to protect. I'm afraid you'll find that most (at least the old guys like me) don't agree with that assessment.

 

[snowman45]

I am being honest and Yes I do have a problem with police not being held to the laws they are in charge of enforcing.

No one is saying police should not be held to account for the same laws they enforce on others. That is the ultimate hypocrisy and in the PRK we see it with the legislature as well. Let's be clear; I'm an old, retired cop who came up in a slightly different atmosphere than we have now. I don't like a great many of these things any more than you do. However, I've seen the direction we are headed in regard to how law enforcement is required to act. Ferguson, Mo is a great example. Simply because one is a member of law enforcement doesn't mean you bow down to aggression any more than it means that you should be the aggressor.

 

[snowman45]

Please do not group the Fire department in with the Police. I have yet to see a fireman or to be PC fire person claim that their lives are more important then the citizens they server, unlike the police officers who shot unarmed people because they feared for their lives and had no choice but to shoot an unarmed man so they could go home safely.

I have seen a great many situations where law enforcement officers have put themselves in harms way to protect or rescue the innocent, so let's not make this kind of comparison with what fire personnel do. Different job with different circumstances. Given the choice between shooting an "unarmed man", even though he may be physically more capable, and going home without injury, or just going home at all is a simple choice. I suspect it's one that many would make.

 

[snowman45]

Let's pretend for a moment that police officers do have a duty to act by law. Ok...so tell me what are the odds that there will be an armed police officer present when the criminal decides to start shooting? So tell me again why I should "get over myself" and be content with waiting for the police officer to show up while the criminal is sending bullets towards me and/or my family?

Again, I agree with your position here. The safety of ourselves and our families is the responsibility of each of us, LEO or not.

 

[mikestone967]

Again, I agree with your position here. The safety of ourselves and our families is the responsibility of each of us, LEO or not.

Then why does one group have special privileges over another?
Police are 100% reactionary, period. Police show up, outline the body and take the report... then, if things aren't too backed up... you may start looking for the perp..

I'll carry anywhere and everywhere I go and that's a promise.
No cops life is worth more than mine or my families...

 

[NavyLCDR]

then, if things aren't too backed up... you may start looking for the perp..

Unless it happens to be another police officer that was the victim of the crime. Then all of the LEO agencies for miles around will all pool their resources and find that particular normally within 24 hours and look for the excuse to kill them on the spot - no double standard there....