CCW Holder shot by LVMPD - Justified?????


Really?

I've read more than a few news articles where shootings have happened in shopping malls, grocery stores, dept stores, the corner gas station, etc...

What makes COSTCO so safe?

You never know when or where something could happen.

+1. It is amazing that we are so blessed with an expert that has figured out which places are safe to not carry a gun. Perhaps we should all contact our "resident expert" each time we leave the house to see if we need to be armed or not.:sarcastic:
 

Enough chatter ladies and gentlemen. I want to see these SOBs DEAD! I truly hope that whatever state that was has the death penalty. For the cold hearted murder of a soldier and the abuse of their power, They need, and deserve, to be killed.
This induhvidual obviously needs no facts or investigation to make the decision.

Nothing like judge, jury and executioner all in one, huh? :sarcastic:
 
+1. It is amazing that we are so blessed with an expert that has figured out which places are safe to not carry a gun. Perhaps we should all contact our "resident expert" each time we leave the house to see if we need to be armed or not.:sarcastic:

LMAO.., I saw recently in an independant study, that most gun related crimes take place between 8:00 am and 5:00 pm don't know if its true but as long as there isn't a sign posted "NO Firearms Allowed" I'm packing.
 
I am going brain dead. I recently read something. Maybe it was a link from here or?? I think it was a link from an email google alert on McDonald vs Chicago that I get.
Basically it said that an innocent bystander is more likely to get shot in a shootout involving the police then one with a CCP and bad guy because the civilian are far more aware of the consequences because they do not have any protection offered by that "thin blue line" that the police have. This is not to disparage LEO'S who are doing their job. as a civilian protecting ourselves or loved ones know that even in a "good shoot"
you know the police, over zealous D.A. and the BG'S family will be coming after you. Think about what I am trying to get across and you will see it makes sense. I will try to find the article and post it.
Of course in the incident referenced here it was definitely time to whip out your CCW badge as posted earlier!:no::wacko:
 
LVMPD has had to use lethal force 3 times in 8 days since the Costco shooting, raising the question what is involved in metros lethal force training. CBS news was allowed in to see their training first hand. Here's the link. "note I was hesitant to post this due to the fact I don't have any video of West Point Military schools lethal force training otherwise refered to as Laws of Armed Conflict LOAC or just urban combat training for the layman". Just to be fair. Remember, I am not taking sides here.
Link Removed
 
Last edited:
Any new news on this thing yet? Im just interested to see how it all pans out and who did what. I know we can all voice out opinions but I really want to know. I hope there is a video of the whole thing so that it tells the true story and not rely on witness statements that seem to be for the police and some for the victim. If it ends up being over reactive Police then they should be tried for thier actions. If it was the victims actions that lead him to being killed then this will be a good lesson to CCW holders as what not to do. I mean we all know and say what we would do but with a horribly true account of it happening, I think it will bring it home for most.

Hopefully they get to the bottom of it soon. Don't rush it but just do it right with no coverups.
 
Any new news on this thing yet? Im just interested to see how it all pans out and who did what. I know we can all voice out opinions but I really want to know. I hope there is a video of the whole thing so that it tells the true story and not rely on witness statements that seem to be for the police and some for the victim. If it ends up being over reactive Police then they should be tried for thier actions. If it was the victims actions that lead him to being killed then this will be a good lesson to CCW holders as what not to do. I mean we all know and say what we would do but with a horribly true account of it happening, I think it will bring it home for most.

Hopefully they get to the bottom of it soon. Don't rush it but just do it right with no coverups.

I agrree 100% and I will follow this this thread all the way through the end. The last news I heard is that we can expect the coronors inquest to take place in September, If anything is reported from now until then, directly related to the Costco shooting, I will more than likely be the first to post it here. I am on the the same page as you, trust me. On a side note, videos from another unrelated shooting that took Place in 2008 are just now being released nearly two years later. So with that said, I really hope it doesn't take that long for this shootings videos to be released to the public.
 
Last edited:
I want to get the bottom of this fast. I think the police are dragging their feet. There are way to many versions of this story already floating around, he did point his weapon at police and reports that he didn’t and the police were to quick to fire. Not to mention that the press seem to be pussyfooting around hard questions. The story said he was with his girlfriend. Why hasn’t she come forward? The sad thing in all this is a person lost his life and no other reason given then he did not obey commands fast enough. In a course of a few days the LVPD has demonstrated that they appear to shoot first and ask questions later. The reality is that this could have been anyone of us. If any law-abiding person is confronted by police with guns drawn and they shoot you by accident and if you are killed they will spin it anyway they can to appear justified in shooting you. There are plenty of videos on the web that illustrate this fact. It has happened many times in the past and I am certain it will happen again. Release the 911 calls and the video. I find it strange that the videos could not be viewed because of some “technical” problem with the video format. Ok, is there a technical problem with the 911 recordings?
 
costco is a big named store with high tech state of the art security. im sure their cameras are facing every angle..... im just sayin. or maybe im not sayin anything :to_pick_ones_nose:
 
Here is a post on firearmsandtraining.blogspot.com from a witness:

I couldn't agree with you more....My wife and I were 7 or 8 feet away from the shooting as were the police. We were to the suspects immediate right. We heard and saw the 3 police officers shouting to the man in question to 'get on your knees' several times. At that point the man appeared somewhat stunned by the commotion and shouting of the police. His Right arm went up in a defenseless position and it appeared his left arm appeared to be going up but there was NO gun in his hand. He was taserd and shot at the same time. At no time did the man in question ever raise his voice, shout an obscenity or become confrontational with the police. We saw the disabled man stooping to his right facing us with what appeared to be a bullet wound in his upper chest with blood coming from the wound and immediately his eyes became glossy as he began to convulse. At this point he was no threat to anyone, both hands were in full view of us and there was no gun. As he was down, the police continued to shout 'put the gun down' several times...but there was no gun in his hand as we had full vantage point view. The injured man was having agonal respirations, he was down when the second volly of bullets rang out. There was no doubt in question that following the second barrage of bullets the man was dead. His girlfriend was to the back side of us and began to scream.....why did you kill him, he is a military man with a license to carry a concealed weapon. You didn't need to kill him....you didn't need to kill him.
An officer then came up to the injured man who in my opinion was a 'dead' man', was cuffed with his hands behind his back and no attempt by the officer to determine if the man was alive or dead. No apparent life saving aid was given to the 'downed' man. The man was totally lifeless when the Paramedics arrived on scene. I was absolutely surprised to see that no attempt at aggressive ACLS was engaged. They simply just picked up the body like a 'sack of potatoes' and hurled him onto the gurney and into the ambulance This was a crime scene.... the crime scene was violated. One of the paramedics who attended to an injured elderly lady said the man was dead. There was a dead man in front of Costco. What nobody is talking about is that there were many many spectators, many like ourselves within just a few feet of the victim when the shots rang out. It seems to me that the greater danger was posed not by the victim but by the police who fired many shots in the vicinity of the innocent public. I agree with you, I hope the media and your friends family can get their hands of Costco's Camera's which will indeed tell the rest of the story. Also it must be confirmed whether the second gun supposedly found by the victims side was indeed also registered to him as a licensed conceal and carry.
This whole incident was a monumental tragedy; a tragedy for the family and friend and also a tragedy for the involved officers who were pushed into a needless confrontation that reached hysterical proportions due to the overreaction of certain employees and bystanders. This was a needless death.

In summary it is our opinion that the victim did not pose an immediate threat to the public.....and in the final analysis was a case of excessive force


Link to the website: Firearms and Training: 3 Officers Involved in Shooting at Summerlin Costco in Las Vegas
 
Here is a post on firearmsandtraining.blogspot.com from a witness:

I couldn't agree with you more....My wife and I were 7 or 8 feet away from the shooting as were the police. We were to the suspects immediate right. We heard and saw the 3 police officers shouting to the man in question to 'get on your knees' several times. At that point the man appeared somewhat stunned by the commotion and shouting of the police. His Right arm went up in a defenseless position and it appeared his left arm appeared to be going up but there was NO gun in his hand. He was taserd and shot at the same time. At no time did the man in question ever raise his voice, shout an obscenity or become confrontational with the police. We saw the disabled man stooping to his right facing us with what appeared to be a bullet wound in his upper chest with blood coming from the wound and immediately his eyes became glossy as he began to convulse. At this point he was no threat to anyone, both hands were in full view of us and there was no gun. As he was down, the police continued to shout 'put the gun down' several times...but there was no gun in his hand as we had full vantage point view. The injured man was having agonal respirations, he was down when the second volly of bullets rang out. There was no doubt in question that following the second barrage of bullets the man was dead. His girlfriend was to the back side of us and began to scream.....why did you kill him, he is a military man with a license to carry a concealed weapon. You didn't need to kill him....you didn't need to kill him.
An officer then came up to the injured man who in my opinion was a 'dead' man', was cuffed with his hands behind his back and no attempt by the officer to determine if the man was alive or dead. No apparent life saving aid was given to the 'downed' man. The man was totally lifeless when the Paramedics arrived on scene. I was absolutely surprised to see that no attempt at aggressive ACLS was engaged. They simply just picked up the body like a 'sack of potatoes' and hurled him onto the gurney and into the ambulance This was a crime scene.... the crime scene was violated. One of the paramedics who attended to an injured elderly lady said the man was dead. There was a dead man in front of Costco. What nobody is talking about is that there were many many spectators, many like ourselves within just a few feet of the victim when the shots rang out. It seems to me that the greater danger was posed not by the victim but by the police who fired many shots in the vicinity of the innocent public. I agree with you, I hope the media and your friends family can get their hands of Costco's Camera's which will indeed tell the rest of the story. Also it must be confirmed whether the second gun supposedly found by the victims side was indeed also registered to him as a licensed conceal and carry.
This whole incident was a monumental tragedy; a tragedy for the family and friend and also a tragedy for the involved officers who were pushed into a needless confrontation that reached hysterical proportions due to the overreaction of certain employees and bystanders. This was a needless death.

In summary it is our opinion that the victim did not pose an immediate threat to the public.....and in the final analysis was a case of excessive force


Link to the website: Firearms and Training: 3 Officers Involved in Shooting at Summerlin Costco in Las Vegas

I still cannot take sides at this point. Video evidence is fact. Witness testimony is speculative. IMO
 
Continued......

The more I see the spin on this incident the more convinced I am that "trigger happy" cops are going to get away with murder. I don't adhere to the common belief that police officers are special. I see a person who is given a gun and a badge and more likely than not have abused people in the name of the law. CCWs have to get training and walk a fine line to get a CCW permit, almost always knowing the laws better than LEOs themselves.

The fact that anyone can make an arrest seems to have slipped the minds of people who would rather that they were the only ones in charge, and is rarely known by the common man. The fact that police should probably be the ones who aren't armed never occurs to government types. At the very least the types of arms the police possess should be available to every household. With all of the effective non-lethal means at their disposal the police have no need to be armed with MP5s and M16s. How many of you have a "bullet proof" vest that you wear while carrying?

Being former enlisted I know what officers can be like, especially the ones from the top three. That doesn't mean that they have a chip on their shoulder any more than some of my fellow NCOs did. So let's get past the "Officer And A Gentleman" stereotypes and see this man in the true light of this episode. I can't get past the "destructive behavior" statements attributed to the Costco employees. This man sold pace makers, not crack cocaine. I doubt that he was barking orders at the employees. I think he made the very human mistake of letting someone see that he was carrying and it got him killed. That should sound alarms with all of us.

We take the time to be responsible for ourselves and others who may need our help in a crisis and we can't expect the response an LEO will get from a radio call of "shots fired". So how many of you would think twice before coming to the rescue of someone else because of police and law suits? Has this incident made you think about what you are doing when you carry now any more than before? You know as well as I do Erik Scott knew the law. He was carrying legally.

I find the witnesses who have posted online to be somewhat suspect, but I find the police evidence that 12 people have come forward to say that Erik Scott was pointing a gun at the officers even more suspect. Was their testimony a product of the police shooting a "suspect" and they saw what they were supposed to see in that situation, or was it what they really saw, if they really saw anything? There are too many questions about this particular case and these cases should be dealt with in open court just like every other case involving a death by gunfire. If there was a question about a shooting a CCW was involved in you know you're headed to court, probably after a stay in jail.

We would all like to think that these LEOs were justified in their actions, because the alternative is worse. They need to produce the full evidence for the public soon.
 
The more I see the spin on this incident the more convinced ...
The more I see this type posting on here the more confirmation I have supporting research suggesting that misinformed people rarely change their minds when presented with the facts -- and often become even more attached to their beliefs. Regardless of the outcome, a certain element of members here will always maintain the cops were in the wrong because that's just what they believe.

Sad this behavior gets reinforced from having their opinions manipulated by the extremist proaganda littering this place.
 
The more I see this type posting on here the more confirmation I have supporting research suggesting that misinformed people rarely change their minds when presented with the facts --

And which facts about this incident would you be referring to? No video or 911 calls have been released to support what the police say happened. Seems clear to me that the LVPD respond to the call as if a mad man was shooting up the store with an AK-47. It's still not clear if he had his gun in his hand when he was shot. And the practice of cherry picking witness that only support one side is not new, the courts do that all the time.
 

New Threads

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
49,543
Messages
611,260
Members
74,964
Latest member
sigsag1
Back
Top