CCW Holder shot by LVMPD - Justified?????

[mrsandman224455]

There have been many outstanding posts in regards to this matter, I am glad I started this thread. If nothing else it reminds of of our responsibilties that go along with our CCW. Again I am not trying to defend the actions of either side just sharing the results of a recent incident that ended unfortunately. My thoughts and prayers go out to the family of the deceased . I am taking in all the input from forum members like a sponge. I know exactly what I would do in this situation and would probablly beat the cops to thier commands. I am going to follow and share this particular incident to the end. My wife and I both have had encounters with LVMPD while carrying and have had no issues with metro, almost like they are pretty used to it. I hope that the guy did'nt have a West Point officer ego, I am retired enlisted and yes I have seen the Egos. My dad was a LEO both military and civilian and believes that it was the CCW holders ego. Thats just his thoughts. I will keep posting as I get the info.

Please do!

 

[GETMRUTN]

You are never going to have to use your firearm. Get over it GI JOE

Another erroneous instance. Keep using one instance at a time as an example because if you put all 10 of these incidents in one post you have run out of examples.

At night? Really? Well here it is at the park in Huntington WV on a sunny day in May, Man and woman walking in the park at aroud 1pm with a baby in the stroller. Park being right smack dab in the middle of town with other people walking around. Two 17 year old boys mug and rob the two adults in the middle of the day and get a whole $5. Hmm. I wonder if this couple left thier gun at home because it wasnt the night time and felt safe?

Please. I will carry when and where I want. Dont care who sees me or says anything. Why, because in a situation like Costco, I will do the right thing and walk away from it. No hero or ego to big here. If you decide to carry, be responsible and know that you will run into these type of problems regardless of where you are and time of day does not matter!!

 

[Pewbs]

At night? Really? Well here it is at the park in Huntington WV on a sunny day in May, Man and woman walking in the park at aroud 1pm with a baby in the stroller. Park being right smack dab in the middle of town with other people walking around. Two 17 year old boys mug and rob the two adults in the middle of the day and get a whole $5. Hmm. I wonder if this couple left thier gun at home because it wasnt the night time and felt safe?

Please. I will carry when and where I want. Dont care who sees me or says anything. Why, because in a situation like Costco, I will do the right thing and walk away from it. No hero or ego to big here. If you decide to carry, be responsible and know that you will run into these type of problems regardless of where you are and time of day does not matter!!

And if they shot the perps they would have been charged because they obviously didn't die or were not in danger of fearing for their lives. So, that saved them a trip to the penitentiary. To think that they could have killed two kids for taking 5 dollars

 

[mrsandman224455]

And if they shot the perps they would have been charged because they obviously didn't die or were not in danger of fearing for their lives. So, that saved them a trip to the penitentiary. To think that they could have killed two kids for taking 5 dollars

wrong

West Virginia
§55-7-22 of the Code of West Virginia

(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using reasonable and proportionate force, including deadly force, against an intruder or attacker to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's or attacker's unlawful entry if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder or attacker may kill or inflict serious bodily harm upon the occupant or others in the home or residence or if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder or attacker intends to commit a felony in the home or residence and the occupant reasonably believes deadly force is necessary.

(b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder or attacker in the circumstances described in subsection (a) of this section.

(c) A person not engaged in unlawful activity who is attacked in any place he or she has a legal right to be outside of his or her home or residence may use reasonable and proportionate force against an intruder or attacker: Provided, That such person may use deadly force against an intruder or attacker in a place that is not his or her residence without a duty to retreat if the person reasonably believes that he or she or another is in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm from which he or she or another can only be saved by the use of deadly force against the intruder or attacker.

(d) The justified use of reasonable and proportionate force under this section shall constitute a full and complete defense to any civil action brought by an intruder or attacker against a person using such force.

(e) The full and complete civil defense created by the provisions of this section is not available to a person who: (1) Is attempting to commit, committing or escaping from the commission of a felony; (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself, herself or another with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant; or (3) Otherwise initially provokes the use of force against himself, herself or another, unless he or she withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

(f) The provisions of this section do not apply to the creation of a hazardous or dangerous condition on or in any real or personal property designed to prevent criminal conduct or cause injury to a person engaging in criminal conduct.[23]

 

[GETMRUTN]

And if they shot the perps they would have been charged because they obviously didn't die or were not in danger of fearing for their lives. So, that saved them a trip to the penitentiary. To think that they could have killed two kids for taking 5 dollars

And once again, Castle Doctrin. Fear for thier lives? Why yes, and the fact that there was an infant involved, I know they would not have been charged. I for one will protect my family in the same situation without question. They BG does NOT have to have a gun to justify fear for your life. Sounds like you are affraid to carry. Maybe check the CCW laws where you live and understand them. I do!! I am a CCW instructor so I cant afford not to. As well as a Prior Federal Police officer Instructor. I am very familiar with castle doctric, duty ro retreat and what does and what does not justify in fear of your life OR your loved one lives. If you are affraid to protect yourself with your gun then you dont need to carry it. And if you are on here to argue and dont even have a gun or a CCW then this conversation is over. Dont waist my time or others. Peace!

 

[GETMRUTN]

wrong

West Virginia
§55-7-22 of the Code of West Virginia

(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using reasonable and proportionate force, including deadly force, against an intruder or attacker to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's or attacker's unlawful entry if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder or attacker may kill or inflict serious bodily harm upon the occupant or others in the home or residence or if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder or attacker intends to commit a felony in the home or residence and the occupant reasonably believes deadly force is necessary.

(b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder or attacker in the circumstances described in subsection (a) of this section.

(c) A person not engaged in unlawful activity who is attacked in any place he or she has a legal right to be outside of his or her home or residence may use reasonable and proportionate force against an intruder or attacker: Provided, That such person may use deadly force against an intruder or attacker in a place that is not his or her residence without a duty to retreat if the person reasonably believes that he or she or another is in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm from which he or she or another can only be saved by the use of deadly force against the intruder or attacker.

(d) The justified use of reasonable and proportionate force under this section shall constitute a full and complete defense to any civil action brought by an intruder or attacker against a person using such force.

(e) The full and complete civil defense created by the provisions of this section is not available to a person who: (1) Is attempting to commit, committing or escaping from the commission of a felony; (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself, herself or another with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant; or (3) Otherwise initially provokes the use of force against himself, herself or another, unless he or she withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

(f) The provisions of this section do not apply to the creation of a hazardous or dangerous condition on or in any real or personal property designed to prevent criminal conduct or cause injury to a person engaging in criminal conduct.[23]

You beat me to it. :angry:

That is why I say know the laws. If you dont or dont care then dont carry. You are only endangering others and yourself.

Enough said.

 

[mrsandman224455]

You beat me to it. :angry:

That is why I say know the laws. If you dont or dont care then dont carry. You are only endangering others and yourself.

Enough said.

haha sorry I had to. You are 100% right

 

[Wolfling68]

And if they shot the perps they would have been charged because they obviously didn't die or were not in danger of fearing for their lives. So, that saved them a trip to the penitentiary. To think that they could have killed two kids for taking 5 dollars

They would not have been killed for taking $5, they would have been killed for threatening the lives of a family. The money, $5 or $5 million is irrelevant.

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

You just have to remember an element of the paranoid Christian club and eccentric crackpot anti-government types looms large on this forum. They will always assume in any given scenario that appointed officials such as police officers and anyone representing an entity they oppose from a philosophical standpoint is automatically guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Bitbight]

My tcw: //wise comment mode on//

1. If I am a legal card carrying, concealed weapon on my person individual, who is shopping in a major retail store.

2. I am confronted by 3 police officers with weapons drawn and pointed at me.

3. I am going to shut up, make no fast moves, listen to everything that is said, OBEY without question.

Sort out what, why, where, when and how later or, YOU WILL GET SHOT DEAD.

// wise comment mode off//

When in any kind of combat situation, adrenaline is running fast. If any unexplained movement, action, or aggression is shown, self preservation kicks in. Add firearms to that mix and you have a powder keg ready to pop.

Nuff said

 

[danfordman]

No more recent updates on Costco shooting, but this news article explains that the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled deadly force decisions come under "tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving circumstances." here is the link;

Link Removed

 

[1911 Headbanger]

You know, I sympathize with the victim and his family, but it all comes down to being hard-headed in my opinion. When a Cop has a gun pointed at you, giving you verbal commands, the last thing you should do is argue or attempt to show your gun. I have had people in my gunsights, finger on trigger and yelling lay on the ground, keep you hands where I can see them, and the moron starts arguing "but i didn't do nothing, I was just tryin' to do such and such." WHAT? For crying out loud. Just do it, and the talk will start after the scene is secured and the cops have a chance to ask what was happening. It's no wonder so many innocent people get shot. They are looking at the muzzle of a gun, with a cautious, even scared cop behind it, and they decide to show the cop his gun or argue with the cop. Sheesh! No matter if you like or dislike cops, you have to be a complete dumbass to do that.

 

[rdx4me]

I mean really, COSTCO?

Really?

I've read more than a few news articles where shootings have happened in shopping malls, grocery stores, dept stores, the corner gas station, etc...

What makes COSTCO so safe?

You never know when or where something could happen.

 

[mrsandman224455]

You know, I sympathize with the victim and his family, but it all comes down to being hard-headed in my opinion. When a Cop has a gun pointed at you, giving you verbal commands, the last thing you should do is argue or attempt to show your gun. I have had people in my gunsights, finger on trigger and yelling lay on the ground, keep you hands where I can see them, and the moron starts arguing "but i didn't do nothing, I was just tryin' to do such and such." WHAT? For crying out loud. Just do it, and the talk will start after the scene is secured and the cops have a chance to ask what was happening. It's no wonder so many innocent people get shot. They are looking at the muzzle of a gun, with a cautious, even scared cop behind it, and they decide to show the cop his gun or argue with the cop. Sheesh! No matter if you like or dislike cops, you have to be a complete dumbass to do that.

You are 100% right...I don't feel the shooting was justified but if a cop has a gun in your face...def comply

 

[danfordman]

The Sheriff finally speaks about the Costco shooting along with police shootings in general, why coronors inquest's take so long, etc. here's the link;
POLICE SHOOTINGS: Gillespie urges patience while police shootings are under investigation - News - ReviewJournal.com

 

[mrsandman224455]

The Sheriff finally speaks about the Costco shooting along with police shootings in general, why coronors inquest's take so long, etc. here's the link;
POLICE SHOOTINGS: Gillespie urges patience while police shootings are under investigation - News - ReviewJournal.com

Thanks for posting! I am looking forward to seeing the end result of this. For the officers sake, and the sake of what happened, I hope it was justified...

 

[jibbster]

The Sheriff finally speaks about the Costco shooting along with police shootings in general, why coronors inquest's take so long, etc. here's the link;
POLICE SHOOTINGS: Gillespie urges patience while police shootings are under investigation - News - ReviewJournal.com

Pretty standard procedure in most places. I know it looks like they are hiding stuff or keeping secrets, but the benefit of not opening ones mouth until the investigation is complete far outweighs the negatives. If they were to call it justified, and then the tape revealed otherwise, that would be hard to recover from. You also don't want witness statements floating around out there tainting statements you may not have taken yet. It is as frustrating to the cops as it is the public, because during that time period, the media and posts on blogs like this, publish lost of conjecture and they read it knowing lots of it to be false or inaccurate, but can't respond to it.

I am not siding with LVMPD, just pointing out some facts having been on the other side before.

Peace :yu:

 

[danfordman]

Yeah, I am not siding with either side just waiting for the end results. Bottom line we are CCW holders so this directly affects us. I come from a strong and long line of both LEO and Military family members. My Grandfather was a Chief Warrant Officer in the Army and his brother was elected sheriff of San Diego in 1967, My dad was both LEO and Enlisted Military. and I am Retired Enlisted from the U.S.A.F. and 90% of the Officers where cool, but there was that 10% with that chip on their shoulder.

 

[kn1080]

Enough chatter ladies and gentlemen. I want to see these SOBs DEAD! I truly hope that whatever state that was has the death penalty. For the cold hearted murder of a soldier and the abuse of their power, They need, and deserve, to be killed.

 

[danfordman]

Enough chatter ladies and gentlemen. I want to see these SOBs DEAD! I truly hope that whatever state that was has the death penalty. For the cold hearted murder of a soldier and the abuse of their power, They need, and deserve, to be killed.

Agreed, if indeed it turns out to be murder, but you know it will be reduced to manslaughter, thats best case senario. Our justice system in this country is not very good IMO.