CC questions for the 1911 group


Jay

New member
Please excuse my thesis.......
 

Tin Can Sailor

New member
Hi, I'm new to this site,and I have found it to be a wealth of information. I have a couple of questions for 1911 CC carriers. First off, how do you carry your 1911, "cocked and Locked" (hammer back,safety on) or "stand by" (round chambered, and hammer at half cock)I have been given advice by other people. (mostly non-1911 CC carriers) And I'd like to hear from this group. Second, What holster do you use. I have a Citadel 1911 CSP, with a BlackHawk Serpa Holster that I plan to carry "strongside". Thanks in advance for the advice.

Bob
:biggrin:
I always carry "cocked and locked." Usually I use an IWB summer special style or a SideGuard IWB pancake holster. Occasionally I wear a SideGuard OWB beltslide holster.
 
Condition 1 in combat.

Condition 3 everywhere else.

Yes, yes, I know - before you all get in a huff, I understand alot of people sort of unconsciously consider themselves going into combat whenever they step out the front door.

But that's another topic. :biggrin:
 

Swinokur

New member
The original JMB patent (I read it on line at the patent office) indeed had no hammer safety, but did have the half cock notch and JMB referred to it as a safety area at that time. I would not use it however because in the event of a sear or hammer spur failure, you could have an AD.


I found a 1940 copy of the Army MOA and it makes no reference at all to using the half cock notch. It does say that if the soldier anticipates near immediate use it can be cocked and locked. If not, Condition 3.

The safest method that works and still gives you almost immediate use is Condition 1. The Army was ok with it.

To the person who said a holster could deactivate the thumb safety I would say you're using a poorly designed holster for the 1911. Most good holster makers take this into account when designing them. I walked around my house all day in Condition 1 in an IWB Tucker Gunleather "The Answer" holster and have never had the thumb safety deactivate. Same for my Serpa.

My .02. YMMV
 

GA Gunsmith

New member
Bob-O, Good advice has been offered to you on how to carry a 1911 and the Citadel is a good weapon. Should you choose to carry locked and cocked, I would suggest you perform frequent safety checks on your pistol. How frequent? Each time you clean it or once a week.
Do this:
1) Make sure the gun is not loaded, then check again, then check again.
2) Point the muzzle in a safe direction.
3) Cock the hammer, it should be already if you checked the chamber, check again.
4) With the thumb safety engaged, pull the trigger, it should not move.
5) Release the trigger and disengage the safety, nothing should happen. If the hammer falls to half cock, you have a problem.
6) OK for now, good. Without gripping the grip safty, pull the trigger, nothing should happen.
7) Now, make sure it goes boom. With the muzzle pointed up and the gun cocked and unloaded, Check this, Check again, put a pencil, eraser down, in the barrel.
8) Pull the trigger and the pencil should be ejected from the barrel with vigor.
9) Now you know the pistol functions as designed and can be loaded and carried with confidence.

Since your Citadel is not a series 80 firing system, it will fire with the magazine removed. If it should be taken away from you, the assailant has 1 shot.
 

.45acp

New member
Since your Citadel is not a series 80 firing system, it will fire with the magazine removed. If it should be taken away from you, the assailant has 1 shot.

Are you saying the series 80's will not fire with out the magazine? If so that is incorrect, the series 80 does not have a magazine disconnect. They will absolutly go bang sans magazine.

One other point, the "series 80" is not a firing system per se, it is a firing pin block, to prevent the pistol from firing if dropped or sear failure. It is basically two levers that push the firing pin block past a detent when the trigger is pressed. In fact you can remove the 2 levers and spring loaded plunger and the weapon will work just fine, you have what is a series 70.

Has nothing to do with the firing system, it is a safety.

Steve
 

Swinokur

New member
IIRC the original JMB patent had a magazine disconnect but it didn't make it into the production gun. The Army MOA doesn't address it either AFAIK.
 

.45acp

New member
IIRC the original JMB patent had a magazine disconnect but it didn't make it into the production gun. The Army MOA doesn't address it either AFAIK.

None of the production models had a disconnect AFAIK, the Hi Power has a mag disconnect, it is about the only thing I do not like about the High Power.


Steve
 

S&W645

NRA Life Member
Are you saying the series 80's will not fire with out the magazine? If so that is incorrect, the series 80 does not have a magazine disconnect. They will absolutly go bang sans magazine.

One other point, the "series 80" is not a firing system per se, it is a firing pin block, to prevent the pistol from firing if dropped or sear failure. It is basically two levers that push the firing pin block past a detent when the trigger is pressed. In fact you can remove the 2 levers and spring loaded plunger and the weapon will work just fine, you have what is a series 70.

Has nothing to do with the firing system, it is a safety.

Steve
You are correct that a Series 80 will fire without the mag installed. Dad's Special Combat Gov't Model is an 80 and will fire without the mag in. You are wrong about that being all that makes an 80 into a Series 70. The hammer half-cocked notch was changed as was the part of the end that engaged it. That part went from hooked ( which would break off ) to a flat section. A Series 80 can trip the hammer at half-cocked while a Series 70 won't. Series 70 that I have also is one due to the Collet Bushing. 1983 to 1988 80s also had them but all of the 70s had them when new.
 

.45acp

New member
You are correct that a Series 80 will fire without the mag installed. Dad's Special Combat Gov't Model is an 80 and will fire without the mag in. You are wrong about that being all that makes an 80 into a Series 70. The hammer half-cocked notch was changed as was the part of the end that engaged it. That part went from hooked ( which would break off ) to a flat section. A Series 80 can trip the hammer at half-cocked while a Series 70 won't. Series 70 that I have also is one due to the Collet Bushing. 1983 to 1988 80s also had them but all of the 70s had them when new.

Yea I know, I was referring to the firing pin block, if you remove the levers and pin block you have what is essentially a series 70 trigger. There are other changes as you pointed out, but I did not address them as the discussion was concerning the firing pin block/trigger.

I have several series 70’s as well as 4 series 80’s, I carry the 80’s.
 

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