I haven't seen this asked anywhere on here, so forgive me if it has. I know this covers our homes in TN and if we are in a hotel room or in a tent for that matter. What about our workplace? Of course considering there are no bans for firearms. Like a retail store with only one clerk in it or a sales office with only one employee?
Castle Doctrine Question
- Thread starter TaterMac
- Start date
E
ezkl2230
Guest
I'm sure you're gong to hear from BC1 at some point regarding this question. Across the country businesses are considered to be the private property of those who own the business. Castle doctrine does not cover you on the premises of a business owned by someone else - and that would include a hotel room or, conceivably, a privately owned campground if they choose to post themselves as gun free. Assuming your workplace has not declared itself to be a gun free zone (such signs have the force of law in Tennessee), defending yourself there would fall under Tennessee's stand your ground law.
Handgunlaw.us would be a good place for you to begin researching this question, http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/tennessee.pdf.
Leaving aside Castle Doctrine, if you are in a business setting and there is a "what if", presumption of imminent danger of death or great bodily injury and stand your ground should be sufficient for you to defend yourself. Not sure why Castle Doctrine is so important to your learning curve.
Nightmare45
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Don't know about your state but in Texas it is anywhere you have a legal right to be.
Fallguy
Citizen
I've come to dislike the term Castle Doctrine only because of its potential to mislead. It is a collection of self-defense laws that can be different from state to state even if both states have the "Castle Doctrine".
Here is the TN law that I think is relevant to your question.
39-11-611. Self-defense.
(a) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:
(1) "Business" means a commercial enterprise or establishment owned by a person as all or part of the person's livelihood or is under the owner's control or who is an employee or agent of the owner with responsibility for protecting persons and property and shall include the interior and exterior premises of the business;
(2) "Category I nuclear facility" means a facility that possesses a formula quantity of strategic special nuclear material, as defined and licensed by the United States nuclear regulatory commission, and that must comply with the requirements of 10 CFR Part 73;
(3) "Curtilage" means the area surrounding a dwelling that is necessary, convenient and habitually used for family purposes and for those activities associated with the sanctity of a person's home;
(4) "Deadly force" means the use of force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury;
(5) "Dwelling" means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, that has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed for or capable of use by people;
(6) "Nuclear security officer" means a person who meets the requirements of 10 CFR Part 73, Appendix B, who is an employee or an employee of a contractor of the owner of a category I nuclear facility, and who has been appointed or designated by the owner of a category I nuclear facility to provide security for the facility;
(7) "Residence" means a dwelling in which a person resides, either temporarily or permanently, or is visiting as an invited guest, or any dwelling, building or other appurtenance within the curtilage of the residence; and
(8) "Vehicle" means any motorized vehicle that is self-propelled and designed for use on public highways to transport people or property.
(b) (1) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force against another person when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force.
(2) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury, if:
(A) The person has a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury;
(B) The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury is real, or honestly believed to be real at the time; and
(C) The belief of danger is founded upon reasonable grounds.
(c) Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury within a residence, business, dwelling or vehicle is presumed to have held a reasonable belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury to self, family, a member of the household or a person visiting as an invited guest, when that force is used against another person, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, business, dwelling or vehicle, and the person using defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
Here is the TN law that I think is relevant to your question.
39-11-611. Self-defense.
(a) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:
(1) "Business" means a commercial enterprise or establishment owned by a person as all or part of the person's livelihood or is under the owner's control or who is an employee or agent of the owner with responsibility for protecting persons and property and shall include the interior and exterior premises of the business;
(2) "Category I nuclear facility" means a facility that possesses a formula quantity of strategic special nuclear material, as defined and licensed by the United States nuclear regulatory commission, and that must comply with the requirements of 10 CFR Part 73;
(3) "Curtilage" means the area surrounding a dwelling that is necessary, convenient and habitually used for family purposes and for those activities associated with the sanctity of a person's home;
(4) "Deadly force" means the use of force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury;
(5) "Dwelling" means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, that has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed for or capable of use by people;
(6) "Nuclear security officer" means a person who meets the requirements of 10 CFR Part 73, Appendix B, who is an employee or an employee of a contractor of the owner of a category I nuclear facility, and who has been appointed or designated by the owner of a category I nuclear facility to provide security for the facility;
(7) "Residence" means a dwelling in which a person resides, either temporarily or permanently, or is visiting as an invited guest, or any dwelling, building or other appurtenance within the curtilage of the residence; and
(8) "Vehicle" means any motorized vehicle that is self-propelled and designed for use on public highways to transport people or property.
(b) (1) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force against another person when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force.
(2) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury, if:
(A) The person has a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury;
(B) The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury is real, or honestly believed to be real at the time; and
(C) The belief of danger is founded upon reasonable grounds.
(c) Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury within a residence, business, dwelling or vehicle is presumed to have held a reasonable belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury to self, family, a member of the household or a person visiting as an invited guest, when that force is used against another person, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, business, dwelling or vehicle, and the person using defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
Nightmare45
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Actually no state needs a castle doctrine, this is why we have the constitution, what happed to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
remdds
New member
Legal opinion
I believe this Nashville attorney answers your question in his blog at: Nashville Criminal Lawyers Explain Self Defense in Tennessee: When can I use Deadly Force for Protection? ? Shipman & Crim, Attorneys At Law
Here is where Tennessee law most strongly protects the right of a person to use deadly force, using an expanded version of the old adage that a person’s home is their “Castle.” Using the same criteria above, Tennessee law provides a person the presumption that they have a “reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury,” when the person using deadly force is inside their:
1. Residence – a dwelling in which a person resides, either temporarily or permanently, or is visiting as an invited guest, or any dwelling, building or other appurtenance within the “curtilage” of the residence. Curtilage being defined as the area surrounding a dwelling that is necessary, convenient and habitually used for family purposes and for those activities associated with the sanctity of a person’s home.
2. Business – a commercial enterprise or establishment owned by a person as all or part of the person’s livelihood or is under the owner’s control or who is an employee or agent of the owner with responsibility for protecting persons and property and shall include the interior and exterior premises of the business;
3. Dwelling – a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, that has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed for or capable of use by people.
4. Vehicle – any motorized vehicle that is self-propelled and designed for use on public highways to transport people or property.
Of course the person using deadly force may only do so against another person who unlawfully and forcibly enters, or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, business, dwelling or vehicle, and the person using defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
Clearly the circumstances under which the other person made entry into the residence, business, dwelling, or vehicle is a factor in determining whether the use of deadly force is permissible. The presumption described above does not apply in these obvious situations:
1. The person against whom the force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, business, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder; provided, that the person is not prohibited from entering the dwelling, business, residence, or occupied vehicle by an order of protection, injunction for protection from domestic abuse, or a court order of no contact against that person.
2. The person against whom the force is used is attempting to remove a person or persons who is a child or grandchild of, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used;
3. The person using force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, business, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
4. The person against whom force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in T.C.A. § 39-11-106, who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, business, residence, or vehicle in the performance of the officer’s official duties, and the officer identified the officer in accordance with any applicable law, or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
Simply put, you are not afforded the presumption that you are in fear for your life if the person entering the residence, business, dwelling, or vehicle has the right to be there, they have the right to remove a person of whom they have lawful custody, the person is a law enforcement officer, or you are engaged in illegal activity.
Lastly, before providing the definitions of Residence, Business, Dwelling, and Vehicle, these are the specifically listed times that the use or even threat Deadly Force is NOT permitted:
If the person using force consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other individual;
If the person using force provoked the other individual’s use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless the person using force abandons the encounter or clearly communicates to the other the intent to do so, and the other person nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the person.
To resist a halt at a roadblock, arrest, search, or stop and frisk that the person using force knows is being made by a law enforcement officer, unless the law enforcement officer uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest, search, stop and frisk, or halt; and the person using force reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary to protect against the law enforcement officer’s use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.
May I use Deadly Force to protect my personal property or to ward off a trespasser on my land?
Deadly Force is NEVER PERMITTED to protect personal property or real estate.
Tennessee Code Annotated section 39-11-614 (c) clearly states that “Unless a person is justified in using deadly force as otherwise provided by law, a person is not justified in using deadly force to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass on real estate or unlawful interference with personal property.”
FROM: Nashville Criminal Lawyers Explain Self Defense in Tennessee: When can I use Deadly Force for Protection? ? Shipman & Crim, Attorneys At Law
I believe this Nashville attorney answers your question in his blog at: Nashville Criminal Lawyers Explain Self Defense in Tennessee: When can I use Deadly Force for Protection? ? Shipman & Crim, Attorneys At Law
Here is where Tennessee law most strongly protects the right of a person to use deadly force, using an expanded version of the old adage that a person’s home is their “Castle.” Using the same criteria above, Tennessee law provides a person the presumption that they have a “reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury,” when the person using deadly force is inside their:
1. Residence – a dwelling in which a person resides, either temporarily or permanently, or is visiting as an invited guest, or any dwelling, building or other appurtenance within the “curtilage” of the residence. Curtilage being defined as the area surrounding a dwelling that is necessary, convenient and habitually used for family purposes and for those activities associated with the sanctity of a person’s home.
2. Business – a commercial enterprise or establishment owned by a person as all or part of the person’s livelihood or is under the owner’s control or who is an employee or agent of the owner with responsibility for protecting persons and property and shall include the interior and exterior premises of the business;
3. Dwelling – a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, that has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed for or capable of use by people.
4. Vehicle – any motorized vehicle that is self-propelled and designed for use on public highways to transport people or property.
Of course the person using deadly force may only do so against another person who unlawfully and forcibly enters, or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, business, dwelling or vehicle, and the person using defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
Clearly the circumstances under which the other person made entry into the residence, business, dwelling, or vehicle is a factor in determining whether the use of deadly force is permissible. The presumption described above does not apply in these obvious situations:
1. The person against whom the force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, business, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder; provided, that the person is not prohibited from entering the dwelling, business, residence, or occupied vehicle by an order of protection, injunction for protection from domestic abuse, or a court order of no contact against that person.
2. The person against whom the force is used is attempting to remove a person or persons who is a child or grandchild of, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used;
3. The person using force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, business, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
4. The person against whom force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in T.C.A. § 39-11-106, who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, business, residence, or vehicle in the performance of the officer’s official duties, and the officer identified the officer in accordance with any applicable law, or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
Simply put, you are not afforded the presumption that you are in fear for your life if the person entering the residence, business, dwelling, or vehicle has the right to be there, they have the right to remove a person of whom they have lawful custody, the person is a law enforcement officer, or you are engaged in illegal activity.
Lastly, before providing the definitions of Residence, Business, Dwelling, and Vehicle, these are the specifically listed times that the use or even threat Deadly Force is NOT permitted:
If the person using force consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other individual;
If the person using force provoked the other individual’s use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless the person using force abandons the encounter or clearly communicates to the other the intent to do so, and the other person nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the person.
To resist a halt at a roadblock, arrest, search, or stop and frisk that the person using force knows is being made by a law enforcement officer, unless the law enforcement officer uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest, search, stop and frisk, or halt; and the person using force reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary to protect against the law enforcement officer’s use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.
May I use Deadly Force to protect my personal property or to ward off a trespasser on my land?
Deadly Force is NEVER PERMITTED to protect personal property or real estate.
Tennessee Code Annotated section 39-11-614 (c) clearly states that “Unless a person is justified in using deadly force as otherwise provided by law, a person is not justified in using deadly force to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass on real estate or unlawful interference with personal property.”
FROM: Nashville Criminal Lawyers Explain Self Defense in Tennessee: When can I use Deadly Force for Protection? ? Shipman & Crim, Attorneys At Law
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