Carrying and becoming a possible threat situation.

[sepayne]

Tonight we had some family in the hospital that we were going to visit, so we went to visit and afterwards do a little shopping for some things. Well after visiting we headed out to grab a bite to eat, then off to Wallyworld for some dog food and other things. Now while in the hospital I did remove the firearm, so I had to put it back on before heading into wallyworld.

In wallyworld walking around with the wife and son, I overhear the person in front of me on the phone mention "yea the big guy with the glasses on his head" he continued down the isle while we had turned off. Of course his comment had made me a little more aware, since this comment did fit me, about that time I hear from another person walking up behind me "The guy with the black shoes?", she just walked by as I watched her with my back to the shelves. Now there's 2 people on the phone talking about things that fit me, walking right by me. I had sunglasses on my head and wearing black shoes. As we go onto the next isle the person walking up in front of us is on the phone also, looking right at me says "the one in the black shirt and gold chain?" and just walks on by, this of course fit me as well.

So of course by now I am aware of anyone and everything I can, I ask the wife if she heard these people too and of course she did not. I said well there's 3 people walking around us that have all said something that described me while walking around us. So after a few more isles down I see all these people along with 2 more all together and headed away from us, so maybe they were just using me as a reference point trying to locate each other. I am unsure what their intent was, but it sure did make me more alert the rest of the night.

Now I never felt threatened enough to think about my firearm, but if these people were planning something, I was aware of them and if needed I did have my pepper spray and firearm. I never did see these people again the rest of the night, even then when walking out to the car I walked at a fast pace, and kept my head on a swivel. To which the wife did say something about it being hard to keep up lol, anyway just wanted to share my story and remind everyone to always keep your awareness up.

 

[Rudy Rudeger]

Tonight we had some family in the hospital that we were going to visit, so we went to visit and afterwards do a little shopping for some things. Well after visiting we headed out to grab a bite to eat, then off to Wallyworld for some dog food and other things. Now while in the hospital I did remove the firearm, so I had to put it back on before heading into wallyworld.

In wallyworld walking around with the wife and son, I overhear the person in front of me on the phone mention "yea the big guy with the glasses on his head" he continued down the isle while we had turned off. Of course his comment had made me a little more aware, since this comment did fit me, about that time I hear from another person walking up behind me "The guy with the black shoes?", she just walked by as I watched her with my back to the shelves. Now there's 2 people on the phone talking about things that fit me, walking right by me. I had sunglasses on my head and wearing black shoes. As we go onto the next isle the person walking up in front of us is on the phone also, looking right at me says "the one in the black shirt and gold chain?" and just walks on by, this of course fit me as well.

So of course by now I am aware of anyone and everything I can, I ask the wife if she heard these people too and of course she did not. I said well there's 3 people walking around us that have all said something that described me while walking around us. So after a few more isles down I see all these people along with 2 more all together and headed away from us, so maybe they were just using me as a reference point trying to locate each other. I am unsure what their intent was, but it sure did make me more alert the rest of the night.

Now I never felt threatened enough to think about my firearm, but if these people were planning something, I was aware of them and if needed I did have my pepper spray and firearm. I never did see these people again the rest of the night, even then when walking out to the car I walked at a fast pace, and kept my head on a swivel. To which the wife did say something about it being hard to keep up lol, anyway just wanted to share my story and remind everyone to always keep your awareness up.

You may have been pranked. A few of the sites I go to for funnies have mentioned doing something similar, I've even seen it on a comedy show. It wasn't funny at all, but apparently someone thought it was.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Now while in the hospital I did remove the firearm

Why?

 

[izaclown]

Why?

It is illegal to carry in a hospital?? I am sure, in SC anyways, it is not legal to carry in any medical facility. I assume that is the way in most states. Check the state laws to be sure.

 

[Jetcat60]

My understanding is that if the hospital has also a mental ward or care for the mentally ill guns are prohibited.

 

[NavyLCDR]

My understanding is that if the hospital has also a mental ward or care for the mentally ill guns are prohibited.

Depends on state law. Washington state law is more specific, illegal only to carry in the mental health wing or portion only. In Florida it is a little less clear:

This is a revised update by Mr. Gutmacher of a recent article from his monthly magazine column, The Legal Corner
CAN YOU CARRY AT A HOSPITAL?
© 2006 by Jon H. Gutmacher

Florida Statute § 394.458 states “except as authorized by law” it is a third degree felony (yeah – felony!) for any person to bring, carry, possess, or transport a “firearm or other dangerous weapon” upon the grounds of any “hospital (or mental health facility) providing mental health services”. Here’s the actual wording:

(1) (a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage . . . .
2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or
3. Any firearms or deadly weapon”.

I just handled an arrest involving this statute. I raised the defense that the phrase “except as authorized by law” meant just that – and that securely encased weapons in vehicles on hospital grounds were therefore legal, pursuant to Florida Statute 790.25, and that persons having a Concealed Weapons Permit were also authorized because Florida Statute 790.06(12) lists all the places you can’t carry pursuant to your permit – and a hospital or mental health facility isn’t one of them. Thus you’re obviously “authorized by law”.

Now, the State Attorney agreed with me in the case I was handling – and dropped the prosecution. However, there is no binding appellate decision on this issue, and therefore, no guarantee you couldn’t get arrested, and become the next “test case”. Just because I’m sure my interpretation is correct doesn’t mean that the rest of the world will. Likewise, the “law according to Gutmacher” isn’t quite the same thing as an Opinion by an appellate court which is binding across the State. So -- maybe some caution isn’t such a bad idea?

I therefore would suggest that carrying inside a hospital or mental health facility pursuant to your CWP should be reserved for very special instances. Likewise, if any one knows you’re carrying, and tells the police or a security guard - I would suggest you be more than accommodating in offering to leave immediately if they feel you’re illegal, or just don’t want you there. Remember -- even if my interpretation is correct -- they still have the right to tell you to leave under trespass laws, no matter what the actual law is. So just get the heck out while you have the chance. If you get into any type of situation where you’re actually taken into custody, politely suggest to the officers that because you have a CWP, you’re not acting illegally. They’ll probably ignore you – but who knows? Can’t hurt!

Anyway, that’s my spin on this statute. Keep safe.

Source (Legal Q&A with Jon Gutmacher, Author of Florida Firearms: Law, Use and Ownership)

Mr. Gutmacher is a practicing trial attorney, was a felony prosecutor, police legal advisor, is an NRA certified firearms instructor, the author of the book Florida Firearms -- Law, Use & Ownership, has appeared on national broadcast network TV's NightLine, and primarily practices in the area of criminal law throughout the state with an emphasis on weapon related offenses, all felonies, as well as representing clients in ATF investigations, FFL license revocations, NICS database errors, expunctions, and select civil cases including defamation, false arrest, and malicious prosecution. His office is in Orlando, and comments or questions can be addressed via email (office{at**floridafirearmslaw[dot]com).

 

[sepayne]

Why?

One of the hospitals we were visiting is a teaching hospital and technically part of a university campus, that's the reason I left it in the car.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Washington's law, RCW 9.41.300:

(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(c) The restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress and ingress open to the general public;

 

[NavyLCDR]

One of the hospitals we were visiting is a teaching hospital and technically part of a university campus, that's the reason I left it in the car.

Thank you

 

[GuamGuy]

You're not really paranoid if they're all talking about you behind your back..............

 

[Rudy045]

It might have been store security/loss prevention following.
Some of the wallyworld stores have some poorly trained LP associates and can be spotted easily.
In most cases I've noticed them they consist of 20 something's on cell phones and stand out.

 

[sepayne]

Thanks Rudy045, that could of been it. That describes the people for sure, early to mid 20's and on cellphones. Plus if they were looking for each other being only an isle or so apart was a little strange to me. Being in a college town it's not uncommon for that age group to be around, but most times they are texting and not talking on the phone.

 

[farsidefan1]

So were you carrying concealed or open? If concealed you might want to revisit how you conceal:neo:

 

[Rudy045]

For the most part I don't worry about carrying concealed when going out anymore, it all depends on where I'm going.
According to Indiana law I am covered open or concealed.
I honestly am not sure how Wal Marts L/P works, but for the most part they don't know how to blend in.

 

[nontechguy]

Did someone see you re-holster your firearm in the parking lot?

 

[jtsantes]

Perhaps these people were undercover workers for the store and thought you might have a weapon and decided to make sure you were up to no good.