Bushmaster Carbon 15

[jerry12]

I need to know what you guy's think of Bushmaster Carbon 15 ?

 

[KevinD]

Pretty much what I'd think of any Bushmaster. It's over-gassed and poorly built. The barrel is the wrong steel and twist rate, the gas port is too big, neither the barrel or the bolt were likely tested properly, nothing is staked...

 

[rifleshooter474]

Really? Give some real facts to back up your post.

 

[KevinD]

A day in the life of a BM LE Dealer - M4Carbine.net Forums
Quality As Good As...... - M4Carbine.net Forums
NEW Comparison Chart of Commercial M4 Pattern Carbines - M4Carbine.net Forums
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...dUVoakZ3UHJnVEE&single=true&gid=5&output=html (Since Bushmaster has declined to participate in the latest M4 Comparison Chart, you'll have to go through this listing of TDP features and compare them to what Bushmaster lists as it's specs).

Really just go to m4carbine.net and search for Bushmaster. People who actually work on and/or train and see a large number of rifles will concur - they're slapped together by someone trying to make a buck and marketed as milspec when they are anything but...

To spell it out:

Busmasters use 4140 steel in their barrels, their gas port is out of spec, they only batch test barrels and bolts, they use the wrong spring and insert on the extractor, their barrels are 1:9 twist, the FSB is not F marked and requires a longer front sight, they use a semi bolt carrier, their chambers are normally .223 - even if marked 5.56, they don't parkerize under the FSB or use taper pins on it, they don't stake the bolt carrier or receiver end plate, and ship rifles with a carbine buffer - all of which is out of spec.

To top it all off, a Daniel Defense or BCM rifle will cost the same (if not less) than what most Bushmasters go for in your local gun store and they are way better built.

 

[rifleshooter474]

A day in the life of a BM LE Dealer - M4Carbine.net Forums
Quality As Good As...... - M4Carbine.net Forums
NEW Comparison Chart of Commercial M4 Pattern Carbines - M4Carbine.net Forums
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...dUVoakZ3UHJnVEE&single=true&gid=5&output=html (Since Bushmaster has declined to participate in the latest M4 Comparison Chart, you'll have to go through this listing of TDP features and compare them to what Bushmaster lists as it's specs).

Really just go to m4carbine.net and search for Bushmaster. People who actually work on and/or train and see a large number of rifles will concur - they're slapped together by someone trying to make a buck and marketed as milspec when they are anything but...

To spell it out:

Busmasters use 4140 steel in their barrels, their gas port is out of spec, they only batch test barrels and bolts, they use the wrong spring and insert on the extractor, their barrels are 1:9 twist, the FSB is not F marked and requires a longer front sight, they use a semi bolt carrier, their chambers are normally .223 - even if marked 5.56, they don't parkerize under the FSB or use taper pins on it, they don't stake the bolt carrier or receiver end plate, and ship rifles with a carbine buffer - all of which is out of spec.

To top it all off, a Daniel Defense or BCM rifle will cost the same (if not less) than what most Bushmasters go for in your local gun store and they are way better built.

There no ARs that sold to non Military real Mil. Spec. Real Mil. Spec. rifles are M16 and M4s that are inspected to Mil. Spec.s They are not sold to non Military.
No one is saying a Bushmaster AR is a true Mil. Spec. rifle, also many would not pay for the little extras or do they really care about them. All the thousands of happy Bushmaster owners care about is if their rifle will shoot.

 

[KevinD]

You're right that without FA, a 14.5" barrel, and gov't inspectors a rifle is not truly milspec. However, my point was Bushmaster and other lower quality AR makers consistently MARKET their stuff as milspec - no one who actually knows what they're talking about calls Bushmaster milspec.

That aside, you can build a rifle to the full specification of the TDP for the M4 minus the full auto and with or without a 14.5" barrel. This should be considered the minimum quality acceptable for a rifle.

Often times you can find a rifle fully meeting these qualifications for the same or less than a Bushmaster. I can find a Colt 6920 (which is a complete copy of the issue M4 with a semi FCG and a 16" barrel) for under $1k. Bushmasters typically go for around $1k in my neck of the woods - seems like a no brainer.

As far as the thousands of happy Bushmaster owners - if they start shooting their rifle more than 500-1k rounds per year, they won't be shooting...

If the receiver end plate comes loose because it's not staked and the receiver extension starts to rotate off, the rifle stops firing.

If the bolt carrier comes loose due to improper staking, the rifle stops firing.

If they try to fire true 5.56 through their out-of-spec chamber, the rifle stops firing.

If their bolt isn't extracting properly due to the wrong spring, the rifle stops firing.

If a lug break off their bolt built of the wrong steel and not properly tested, the rifle stops firing.

These are issues that have been seen time and time again with Bushmaster and other lower quality rifles once they actually start being used more than a few hundred rounds a year - whether it's matches or training.

 

[Warbirds]

KevinD, I haven't researched what you are saying yet so I have a question. Have these issues occurred throughout the history of bushmsters production or Are these recent issues because of a decline in quality? When I bought mine many many years ago I did a substantial amount of research and did not find any of what you are saying. Now I am going to have to go back and look into it.

 

[KevinD]

I've only been into ARs since the ban lifted in 2004 and its been true of them for at least that long.

 

[Mac357]

I own a Bushmaster Carbon 15..it was first AR. Mine has run pretty well. I take to the range about every trip and run 300-500 round through it every time. As an Army vet, I can tell you that it is not the best AR on the market by far, but if you want an AR to have fun with for $700 or less then the gun is fine. Is the Daniel Defense and others a better built weapon, Yes. The BushMaster is not a piece of crap nor is it the best AR on the market. My Bushmaster runs good for an inexpensive AR. I run PMC 55Gr FMJ .223 ammo through it and have very few problems. Get some good mags and keep it clean and it runs just fine. With a good optic such as the Nikon M223 it is good to go. But it is what it is, IMHO it is not a bad gun, there are just better ones out there.

 

[rifleshooter474]

I own a Bushmaster Carbon 15..it was first AR. Mine has run pretty well. I take to the range about every trip and run 300-500 round through it every time. As an Army vet, I can tell you that it is not the best AR on the market by far, but if you want an AR to have fun with for $700 or less then the gun is fine. Is the Daniel Defense and others a better built weapon, Yes. The BushMaster is not a piece of crap nor is it the best AR on the market. My Bushmaster runs good for an inexpensive AR. I run PMC 55Gr FMJ .223 ammo through it and have very few problems. Get some good mags and keep it clean and it runs just fine. With a good optic such as the Nikon M223 it is good to go. But it is what it is, IMHO it is not a bad gun, there are just better ones out there.

This is the point I was trying to get across if the AR one buys fits their needs and preforms well, this is all that really matters.

When I bought my S&W 15T the bbl. was Mfg. buy Mossberg and Sons today S&W has bought Thompson Centerfire and they use their bbls, not implying they are not really good bbls.
My S&W 15T came with Troy BUIS and Troy rails also a real Mil. Spec. type steel Mag.

Today they come with Magpul sights rails and Mags. IMHO not as good as when supplied with the Troy items, but not implying these items are poor quality just myself I am glad mine have the Troy.

Things change Mfg's want more profit so you must do your own homework when buying.

 

[B2Tall]

I have a S&W 15T. My knowledge of ARs is fairly limited compared to other firearms but I will pass on the advice that I got from a couple of professionals before I bought my AR. They didn't care much for Bushmasters although they agreed that as a weekend plinker it would be OK although the odds of my having problems, especially over time, would increase with one of their rifles. I took their advice and spent a little more $$$ on a S&W. I can't say how things would have worked out had I bought the Bushmaster but after about 2k rounds through my 15T, I'm very happy.

 

[rifleshooter474]

I have a S&W 15T. My knowledge of ARs is fairly limited compared to other firearms but I will pass on the advice that I got from a couple of professionals before I bought my AR. They didn't care much for Bushmasters although they agreed that as a weekend plinker it would be OK although the odds of my having problems, especially over time, would increase with one of their rifles. I took their advice and spent a little more $$$ on a S&W. I can't say how things would have worked out had I bought the Bushmaster but after about 2k rounds through my 15T, I'm very happy.

The S&W 15T was a very wise choice.

 

[Hyperjoe]

I have had 2 bushys. Shot thousands of rounds a year and no problems. I do not know what you are talking about.

 

[Deserteagle]

I dont have the specific carbon 15 model, but I have a Bushmaster M4 and I would never consider trading it for any other manufacturer.

 

[Mac357]

All this negative talk about the Bushmaster Carbon 15 got me stirred up. I took mine to the range with about 700 rounds yesterday, mounted a new Simmions 4-18x44 optic on it and zeroed it at 100 yards. Then set a series of targets from 25 yards , 50 yards,75 yards and 100. I then loaded 5 mags at a time and put it through as much hell as I could. Some of the ammo was even Metal cased, which is normally against my morals unless it's Hornady Steel Match. The rest was a mixture of PMC 5.56/.233 and the same in Federal. After running it straight for about a good solid hour I had one malfunction and it was due to a faulty Magazine.
MY barrel is a 1 in 9" and 6 lands and grooves. I am normally using 55gr, but also some 62grain and it worked like a champ. This is not the first time I have put it through the motions in this fashion and it was holding groups as well as any. So I am still waiting for all this stuff to go wrong...I will be the first to admit when it does, but until then I like my Bushmaster. And I know there are better AR's out there...not saying they are not, but for $700 this is a great little AR. IF you paid more than $700, then you got ripped.