True! I recommended the AR platform because of the reduced lethality to bystanders in other rooms of the house over a 12-gauge and the other mentioned firearms, and because you have 30+ rounds at your disposal. If you live alone, in a house, in the country, 12 gauge buckshot is just fine, but a $200 shotgun will probably be a double barrel. That's two rounds, which for me personally is not enough for home defense. A nice 870 with 8 rounds and birdshot is probably safe and effective. Just remember, you still have to point the weapon at the bad guy. The shotgun will not spread out 10+ inches at home defense range. You have to "aim" it like any other weapon. AR or shotgun, at 10 feet, point and shoot works equally well.
Best weapon for home Self Defense
- Thread starter JDSTEB
- Start date
True! I recommended the AR platform because of the reduced lethality to bystanders in other rooms of the house over a 12-gauge and the other mentioned firearms, and because you have 30+ rounds at your disposal. If you live alone, in a house, in the country, 12 gauge buckshot is just fine, but a $200 shotgun will probably be a double barrel. That's two rounds, which for me personally is not enough for home defense. A nice 870 with 8 rounds and birdshot is probably safe and effective. Just remember, you still have to point the weapon at the bad guy. The shotgun will not spread out 10+ inches at home defense range. You have to "aim" it like any other weapon. AR or shotgun, at 10 feet, point and shoot works equally well.
If you want to go the shotgun route. A nice alternative to those mentioned. One of the shotguns based on the AK-47, 74. Saiga and VEPR (Molont) are the most common. Get the shortest legal barrel and a folding stock that will allow firing when folded. I rather suggest a well performing muzzle brake as well. If you permanently attach the brake, then the overall barrel length limit will include the brake. This is probably the shortest and most functional shotgun you can have without needing a tax stamp. Magazines (AKA, AK) allow a nice range of ammunition capacity. Be aware that there are "US parts" requirements for these guns. Make sure you understand and deal with these requirements.
Also keep in mind that a 12 gauge has a rather significant recoil (hence the muzzle brake) and makes your ears bleed worse than a smaller handgun.
Personally, I think a good handgun is a better first response. It is easy to keep by the bed/couch, etc. It is also far easier to wield in the house environment with minimal self exposure. At least 9mm and a big mag. Done properly you will have more rounds to fire than anything other than a drum mag on the shotgun. And I have the feeling that drums are on the iffy side of reliable.
Also keep in mind that a 12 gauge has a rather significant recoil (hence the muzzle brake) and makes your ears bleed worse than a smaller handgun.
Personally, I think a good handgun is a better first response. It is easy to keep by the bed/couch, etc. It is also far easier to wield in the house environment with minimal self exposure. At least 9mm and a big mag. Done properly you will have more rounds to fire than anything other than a drum mag on the shotgun. And I have the feeling that drums are on the iffy side of reliable.
dogshawred
New member
Here are some links for guns that will provide a pump shotgun around $200;
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Pump
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ASI PUMP ACTION PASI1 12GA 18.5 BLK 5RD $179.00 SHIPS FREE
ASI PUMP ACTION PASIMAX 12GA 18.5 BLK 5RD $199.00 SHIPS FREE
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Double barrel
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The double barrel is more than $200 as you will notice, just say'in.
I previously posted a suggestion for the AK-47,74 platform for shotguns. I failed to explain they are expensive. Maybe they will become more rational after the feeding frenzy caused by our government. But they are reliable, very effective, and can have reasonable capacity mags attached. It is also fairly simple to add things such as lasers and lights. They (some more than others) have been gelded for import; but that is fixable.
They represent a fairly awesome firepower. Be aware of all the things that have been said about walls and neighbors. Adjust loads when possible to minimize external impact. You are hurling a lot of high energy chunks of metal around. But in terms of one shot takedown, I suspect they would be difficult to beat when using a slug or 00 shot.
Basically, screw the noise of a pump shotgun being operated. I am not interested in communication with a home invader. I am interested in stopping them. If you must have noise (to sooth some irrational need), leave the bolt open when you place it for easy access. But dust often. A 12gauge firing is difficult to ignore.
They represent a fairly awesome firepower. Be aware of all the things that have been said about walls and neighbors. Adjust loads when possible to minimize external impact. You are hurling a lot of high energy chunks of metal around. But in terms of one shot takedown, I suspect they would be difficult to beat when using a slug or 00 shot.
Basically, screw the noise of a pump shotgun being operated. I am not interested in communication with a home invader. I am interested in stopping them. If you must have noise (to sooth some irrational need), leave the bolt open when you place it for easy access. But dust often. A 12gauge firing is difficult to ignore.
Riverkilt
New member
My choice - living in a rural small town of 7,000 in a 4plex is a SW Governor with six .410 Winchester PDX4 Defender rounds, with a Taurus Public Defender with five .410 Winchester PDX4 rounds, backed up by a Mossberg 590A1 8+1 shotgun, a Bushmaster AR and a Colt M4 carbine - the last two with 30 round mags. Methinks though that should I ever have need to use it the issue would be resolved in short order by the Governor and the Public Defender. The PDX4 .410 rounds put out three discs surrounded by a dozen shot. One foot diameter pattern at 20 feet with the discs in the middle. Plan is to unload ELEVEN .410 Defender rounds in a fast volley then switch to the Mossberg and ARs immediately after....should anyone still be interested in getting into my home.
wolf_fire
New member
I'd be very interested in seeing you use all those firearms at once. :smile:
OneLastRound
New member
I believe the ultimate home defense weapon is the Tavor 5.56 NATO. It's overall length is 26" with a 16.5" barrel. It is shorter than a pistol grip shotgun with and 18" barrel, which has a 28" overall length. The Tavor has superior control, maneuverability, 3X the rounds, and has rails for tactical attachments. Link Removed
This Mossberg is a very nice tool too.
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Yes, it costs 4X as much as the shotgun, but my families safety is priceless.
Commence the flames...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
This Mossberg is a very nice tool too.
Link Removed
Yes, it costs 4X as much as the shotgun, but my families safety is priceless.
Commence the flames...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I believe a handgun such as the Bersa Thunder .380 which is 7+1 is an excellent home defense. Unless three or four people break in I believe 7+1 is enough rounds and you can get 9+1 mags for them also. It has a 3.5 barrel and feels like a real gun, is dependable, accurate and easy to shoot.
Load it with good defense ammo and it will do well. I know many people want a larger caliber but a .380 at close range is a good weapon, does not have a lot of recoil. :dance3:
Load it with good defense ammo and it will do well. I know many people want a larger caliber but a .380 at close range is a good weapon, does not have a lot of recoil. :dance3:
Nick Burkhardt
New member
cluznar, I also have a Bersa Thunder .380, but do not rely on it for home defense for the following reasons: 1) like many small semi-auto pistols it does not go bang every time. These Bersas are particular susceptible to type 3 malfunctions where the bullet goes nose up in the chamber requiring you to drop the magazine in order to clear it. 2) Too many safeties on the Bersa leave you with many chances to find yourself pulling a limp trigger in a stressful situation. 3) While the .380 may make sense for concealed carry where you do not want to risk a bullet pass through hitting an innocent in a crowed public place, you want to have the most powerful round that you can control for home defense. Some home invaders wear body armour which the .380 would not have a chance of penetrating. and 4) Why limit your capacity? Most modern full size pistols can carry 10 to 17 rounds of .45 to 9mm ammo. If you have four guys rush in your home and it takes two .380 rounds each to put them down, you don't have any room to miss!
For the same $299 price as a Bersa Thunder 380 you can get a Link Removed
jcreek
New member
I'm not sure I follow this logic either. You're not bound by the limitations of having to conceal the weapon with home defense. I think a home invasion would be the most likely scenario where you would face multiple threats. And 7+1 .380 just wouldn't cut for me. Full size .45 and an 8+1 auto 12ga for me.
Harley Ruger
New member
I believe any "tactical" type 12 ga such as Mossberg 500 or Rem 870 would be fine, however I would not use 00 buckshot unless you live alone, and there's no houses close to you, cause you're gonna shoot right through those walls.You don't want to take out your next door neighbor, or some member of your own family in another room. If you don't think 7 1/2 bird shot will do damage, go to the range, or somewhere, and shoot it at a target at 15 ft or less. I gaurantee it'll take someone out.
I personally feel comfortable with my 9 mm Kahr, 8 shots. I feel competent with it, and it's easier to manuver than a long gun.
I personally feel comfortable with my 9 mm Kahr, 8 shots. I feel competent with it, and it's easier to manuver than a long gun.
jcreek
New member
Bird shot has a lot more stopping power against paper or watermelons than it does a rib cage. And like others have said, shotguns aren't the best weapons for clearing your own house. IMO shotguns are best used to defend a choke point like a stairwell or doorway. You should have these choke points designated in advance and know what lies beyond. Buckshot is not jacketed and does not have the same penetration ability through hard materials as jacketed ammo. Yes, it will punch right through several interior walls but a majority of the time it will not penetrate hardiplank siding after already passing through drywall and 5/8" plywood at 15-20ft (the length of my stairwell). It certainly won't go through two exterior walls sided with hardy plank to hit a neighbor in their house 75 ft away. Especially since I'm shooting down a stairwell. The duplex I live in has a reenforced CMU firewall between the residences to I'm not worried about hitting that neighbor either.
If you live in apartments or have a house sided with cedar or vinyl you have to be more careful.
fudo
New member
NOT. I have treated numerous patients who engaged people armed with shotguns, some at ranges as close as 3'. They did not flee or die of fright. They made a conscious decision to engage in combat mortal, with other people equally committed to defense of self and/or friends/family.:butcher: If you believe this, "Only an insane invader would continue coming toward a shotgun once he knows you have it. ." you are in for a rude surprise.
My SD gun is an Ithaca 37 12 Ga. 8+1 with Winchester PDX1 BUCK N BALL. I am in a w/c, so I'm not going to be sneaking up on anyone. If an intruder enters my bedroom, a short, loud confrontation will ensue.
Any shotgun will really do - racking it will intimidate the hell out of any intruder. I would recommend bird shot ammo, as it is less penetrating and less likely to go through walls, floors, etc. A pistol such as a .45 is just too much firepower in a housing situation. You don't want to kill family or neighbors accidentally and it's much harder to be accurate in a tense situation.
fudo
New member
Mcrosson, you are reciting fantasy stories from the gun rags from the '60's and 70's. If you do some research, you will see that reality is somewhat different.bird shot's poor penetrating ability make it a poor SD load. IMHO, #1 BUCK would be the floor of what I would be comfortable with for SD/ HD. Don't depend on the fantasy that an intruder is going to cut and run at the sound of a shotgun being racked. Actually, all you did is give away your position.
cluznar, I also have a Bersa Thunder .380, but do not rely on it for home defense for the following reasons: 1) like many small semi-auto pistols it does not go bang every time. These Bersas are particular susceptible to type 3 malfunctions where the bullet goes nose up in the chamber requiring you to drop the magazine in order to clear it. 2) Too many safeties on the Bersa leave you with many chances to find yourself pulling a limp trigger in a stressful situation. 3) While the .380 may make sense for concealed carry where you do not want to risk a bullet pass through hitting an innocent in a crowed public place, you want to have the most powerful round that you can control for home defense. Some home invaders wear body armour which the .380 would not have a chance of penetrating. and 4) Why limit your capacity? Most modern full size pistols can carry 10 to 17 rounds of .45 to 9mm ammo. If you have four guys rush in your home and it takes two .380 rounds each to put them down, you don't have any room to miss!
For the same $299 price as a Bersa Thunder 380 you can get a Smith & Wesson SD9VE 9MM 4" barrel with two 16Round Magazines
Both my Bersa Thunder .380 and my Thunder .32 DO go bang every time. I have 500 rounds thru the .380 with no problems and 400 thru the .32 with no problems (I use only FMJ in the .32) I have no problems with any safeties, I keep them both with a round in the chamber, decocked and safety off. I have never had any failure to fire because of safeties. I have seen many actual videos of armed people robbing and shooting or getting shot and read many stories of home break-ins. As of yet in none of the videos or home break-ins were any bad guys wearing body armor. I'm not saying it can not happen but it is not common. You can always use a head shot if they are wearing body armor. Also, the majority of the time it is one or two people that break in. If you shoot one of them, usually the other will run out of the house or maybe give up, most robbers don't believe there will be a confrontation. It is always possible one could shoot back but that is the chance you take. What if you had a shotgun and you killed an invader, but you did not see another invader off to the side and he shot and killed you? See there are no sure scenarios, you simply deal with it when it happens. I have trust in my .380 Bersa, and if I need more rounds to shoot I also have the Bersa .32 which at close range is deadly.
:triniti:
For the same $299 price as a Bersa Thunder 380 you can get a Smith & Wesson SD9VE 9MM 4" barrel with two 16Round Magazines
Both my Bersa Thunder .380 and my Thunder .32 DO go bang every time. I have 500 rounds thru the .380 with no problems and 400 thru the .32 with no problems (I use only FMJ in the .32) I have no problems with any safeties, I keep them both with a round in the chamber, decocked and safety off. I have never had any failure to fire because of safeties. I have seen many actual videos of armed people robbing and shooting or getting shot and read many stories of home break-ins. As of yet in none of the videos or home break-ins were any bad guys wearing body armor. I'm not saying it can not happen but it is not common. You can always use a head shot if they are wearing body armor. Also, the majority of the time it is one or two people that break in. If you shoot one of them, usually the other will run out of the house or maybe give up, most robbers don't believe there will be a confrontation. It is always possible one could shoot back but that is the chance you take. What if you had a shotgun and you killed an invader, but you did not see another invader off to the side and he shot and killed you? See there are no sure scenarios, you simply deal with it when it happens. I have trust in my .380 Bersa, and if I need more rounds to shoot I also have the Bersa .32 which at close range is deadly.
:triniti:
Riverkilt
New member
Racking the shotgun gives away your position? Suppose. It was 1966 but I was taught in the Police Academy not to rack the shotgun until things were going downhill...back then they said the sound made a loud statement. Course, as an officer with a shotgun we weren't hiding back then either, more likely to be facing down rioters. Home defense, no need to rack it - I'm ready to go already.
wolf_fire
New member
Personally, I don't trust any handgun for SD until I have at least 500 rounds through it. You may have trust in your weapons cluznar, but I certainly wouldn't with that few rounds through it. Also, for as long as I've been on this forum you've been touting how great and reliable your weapons are and in how much trust you have in them. Only now, you have mentioned that you have only 400 through one and 500 through the other. I cannot conceive of carrying something that I stake my life on if you had much less than that run through them before.
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