Best small light pocket carry?
- Thread starter anon231
- Start date
bofh
Banned
Yes, we know. .32 ACP is the bomb.
Since your Bersa .32 ACP has been discontinued, you found at least a .32 ACP handgun that someone can actually buy (online). Have you actually shot the Kel-tec P-32? Its recoil may be snappier than the Bersa .380 ACP due to the significant difference in weight (9.4 oz vs. 22.4 oz - both with loaded magazine).
whodat2710
New member
Well, I'm still a fan of the LCP, since I can carry it 24/7 without it being noticeable. Most times I have my LC9 as a primary when I leave the house, but sometimes just the LCP.
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I was reading about R.I.P. ammo, which was originally prototyped in 9mm. When I looked to see the price and availability, they now produce .380. It was in stock, so I "bit the bullet" and bought a box. With shipping it came out to $2.95 a round; but after seeing the videos, then demolishing a pumpkin when I test fired a few, it is now my carry ammo for the .380. Just adds a little extra stopping power to it.
Home of RIP Ammo | G2 Research
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http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=g2+research&Submit=Search
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I was reading about R.I.P. ammo, which was originally prototyped in 9mm. When I looked to see the price and availability, they now produce .380. It was in stock, so I "bit the bullet" and bought a box. With shipping it came out to $2.95 a round; but after seeing the videos, then demolishing a pumpkin when I test fired a few, it is now my carry ammo for the .380. Just adds a little extra stopping power to it.
Home of RIP Ammo | G2 Research
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http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=g2+research&Submit=Search
bofh
Banned
I didn't buy into the RIP ammo hype. Yes, it surely makes for dramatic effects when shooting at a pumpkin, melon, or dead chicken (FPSRussia video). Its terminal ballistics are not so good. A good traditional JHP lead bullet is simply better at half the cost per round or even less. This has been discussed in depth in this Forum when the hype started. Here are some actual gel tests which allow for comparison:
G2 Research's RIP Ammo - Ballistic Testing, Phase One | The Truth About Guns
G2 Research's RIP Ammo - Ballistic Testing, Phase Two | The Truth About Guns
whodat2710
New member
I had seen that on here when initially posted. Here's my thinking - If I'm out and about, my .380 is a BUG, ergo if it gets used it will be up close and personal. The above tests were on 9mm, so not quite apples to apples. The advertised muzzle velocity (1250fps compared to Hornady CD @ 1000fps) should compensate for the lighter "post-separation" projectile.
bofh
Banned
You are correct that those tests were done for 9mm, but they do compare apples with apples (9mm RIP vs. 9mm HST JHP) and show that the HST destroys more than twice the amount of tissue. That's why ShootingTheBull410 sees the 9mm RIP to be much closer to a lead-based .380 ACP JHP in performance. His videos have also demonstrated that those trocars don't do much damage. I personally compare it to a copper JHP loosing its pedals (by design in this case).
As it is with all copper projectiles, they are lighter, so velocity needs to be higher to deliver the same amount of energy. The G2 Web site posts a velocity of 1,250 fps for the .380 round, but no weight. I found somewhere else that it has 62 grain. That would make it 215 foot pounds of energy. For comparison, Speer Gold Dot .380 has 1,040 fps and 90 grain, resulting in 216 foot pounds of energy. So, the energy delivered is pretty much the same, but the RIP is a fragmenting bullet. The higher velocity is compensating for the lighter bullet and not for loosing the trocars. The base of the .380 ACP G2 RIP is probably not even on par with a .32 ACP JHP in performance, as a .32 ACP JHP is 60 grains of lead.
Anyway, you should look at the video link I posted. It is in general about such exotic ammo.
Cumberland
New member
I'm a fan of Ruger , but not the LCP. I alternate the micro class between the TCP 738 and the Sig P238. Both reliable with good ammo with the P238 being the lightest recoil and most accurate.
bofh
Banned
I posted a similar comment in another thread: If, god forbid, I ever get into a shootout situation, I hope the attacker followed your advice and uses a semi-auto in .22lr. Its low stopping power and finicky reliability will allow me to defend myself better.
bofh have ever, or known anyone who has been shot with a .22lr? A woman whose home was invaded by a man told him she had money. He said take him to it. She took him to her bedroom and said she would get it. Reaching in a dresser drawer, she pulled out a .22lr pistol and shot him in the chest, killing him. So you just laugh if someone pulls a .22lr on you and we will see you in the morgue.
:triniti:
:triniti:
I'd love to have a P238, but for the price I could buy another Taurus 738 and have enough left for a couple hundred rounds. I don't think you even get 2 mags with the Sig. Too pricey for me.
bofh
Banned
Can you post a link to that story?
Yes, a .22LR can be deadly. A 9mm is just deadlier!!! A .45 ACP is even deadlier!!! Centerfire cartridges are also generally more reliable than rimfire cartridges!!! If a single .22LR round can kill a person in a specific instance, then a single 9mm round will do the same. The inverse is not true: If a single 9mm round can kill a person in a specific instance, a single .22LR round will not necessarily do the same.
Note that as with the Terminal ballistics as viewed in a morgue, there is a significant difference between stopping a threat and killing a human being. This is, where all the small caliber arguments fail. Stopping a threat is about incapacitating the individual that is attacking you. A single gunshot out of a .22LR may work as the attacker may just stop or run away. In many single-gunshot stories where the attacker died, the attacker ran away and collapsed at some point while running away. In rare instances, a one-shot stop happened, where the attacker collapsed immediately. However, if the attacker has a weapon and is willing to use it or if the attacker is simply out of his mind or on drugs, then a incapacitation through blood loss and/or through damaging vital organs is the only chance you have. With a .22LR, incapacitation through blood loss would take a significant number of rounds, thus your only option is damaging vital organs through proper shot placement. The longer it takes you to stop a threat, the more chance you give that threat to harm or kill you.
You obviously didn't understand my comment:
If someone pulls a .22LR on me, I will react the same way as if someone pulls a .45ACP on me. I won't try to read the imprint on the slide to identify the caliber and start laughing when I see .22 Long Rifle. Instead, I will defend myself using the tools I have at my disposal. I just choose to be prepared better than you.
Here are two links, the first one was the one I mentioned, but my mistake she shot him two times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcLo_TGy7pA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3jURuXjjJ8 :dirol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcLo_TGy7pA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3jURuXjjJ8 :dirol:
bofh
Banned
The attacker brought a knife to a gunfight and the victim was ready to fight. The attacker was shot several times and ran away. He collapsed outside of the house while running away.
The attacker brought his fists to a gunfight and the victim was ready to fight. The victim fired one shot and missed. The attacker was afraid and ran away.
In both cases, the vicim was able to successfully defend herself with a .22lr handgun. The attack stopped immediately when the attacker realized that his victim had a handgun. The attacker had no firearm and was afraid of being killed by the victim. These cases state the obvious, a .22lr handgun is better than no gun.
If the attacker would not have stopped, both, the attacker and the victim, may be dead now. As I explained before, it is about stopping a threat. In these cases, the threat was stopped by firing a .22lr handgun and making him afraid. In many other cases, the threat was stopped by simply just pointing a handgun at the attacker. The caliber doesn't matter in these instances.
However, where caliber matters is when the threat is not stopped by pointing a handgun or firing a shot. In those cases, the attacker may not realize that he has been shot until he sees blood or collapses. While the attacker may eventually die from his wounds, the victim may be injured or killed in the mean time. Stopping power is all about the time it takes to disable an attacker, not that the attacker will eventually die. The survival from a gunshot wound entirely depends on what has been hit, how much tissue has been destroyed, and how quickly medical help is provided. Many wounds from handguns are survivable.
It is always better to hit with a .22lr than to miss with a 9mm, but it is also always better to hit with a 9mm than with a .22lr. The per-round damage inflicted by a 9mm round is simply greater than of a .22lr. As multiple hits may be needed, follow-up shots need to hit as well.
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