Best Distance for Pistol Target Shooting

[Dr. Dillner]

What distance should I set my target at for target practice? I realize there can be a myriad of answers for this, but I am sure there are some standards for pistol shooting out there. The reason I ask is that I have a new .40 EMP that I conceal carry and I want to be realistic with how far my targets should be set for realistic settings.

 

[wolf_fire]

What "realistic" setting do you project to have to use your firearm? That alone should answer your question.

However, I'll let you know how I train. I train at these distances: 3 yds, 5 yds, 7 yds, 10 yds, 15 yds, and 25 yds. Note, these are in yards, not feet. The reason I train at these distances is because these are the distances I will be at when I do firearms qualifications.

However, what are you training for? Is it self-defense? If so, anything past 7 yards is more than likely overkill, and the way I would train is to try to get off rounds quickly and in center of mass. Target shooting so you can hit a one inch by one inch square SLOWLY is not good training for self-defense. You want to be quick, accurate (on Center of Mass), and be able to get many rounds off quickly. There are many other drills that I would recommend if interested, but you only asked about distances.

If you are trying to target shoot, then any distance would be an interesting challenge. If you have a competition you are going to join, find out from them where the targets will be and how large. This will give you the answer you are looking for.

 

[SigShooter77]

We use 8" dots on a 12"x12" steel plate at 7 yards and a full 12" by 12" plate at 25 yards to run all of our combat drills on at work. Only solid hits count, none of that touching the line stuff for this course of fire.

For standard Navy pistol qualifications the targets are transtar II's and the distances are 3 yards, 7 yards and 15 yards. Standard Navy CoF allows for touching the line to be counted as next higher score.

 

[thru]

the reaslitic range, for civilians, is from arm's length to 5 yds, max. If you want some training at harder/longer stuff, do head shots. dont shoot steel plates at less than 5 yds,, tho, the risk of lead splashback harming you is too great. What matters most is extreme speed of ccw draw, not necessarily firing, but getting the gun VISIBLE to the punk, from far enough away to make him SEE that he's going to get shot, probably repeatedly, to give him time and space to stop and flee. It will cost you an average of 50k plus if you hit somebody with a bullet, to stay out of prison and not be sued for everything you ever make. so if you CAN, it is very advisable to be fast enough to not HAVE to fire. Just ask G. Zimmerman if he wishes he'd had some hand to hand skill and had gotten his gun out sooner! He came within a fraction of a second of being shot with his own gun, then he came within a hair of having to serve 10 or more years in prison and he's STILL under threat of lawsuits, and will have to watch his back for another 10 years, at least.

 

[GB-Boater]

I go with 3, 5, and 7 yds. It is good to be able to shoot farther out, and doesn't' hurt to shoot 10, 15, and 20 yds.

 

[AndeyHall]

What distance should I set my target at for target practice? I realize there can be a myriad of answers for this, but I am sure there are some standards for pistol shooting out there. The reason I ask is that I have a new .40 EMP that I conceal carry and I want to be realistic with how far my targets should be set for realistic settings.

By the way you ask your question, I'm going to assume you mean for self defense. That being the case, 7yds (21ft) is the standard for max distance you can legally defend yourself with deadly force. Now don't quote me on this, but LEO's are trained to use deadly force when a suspect has a "bladed object" (knife, ax, hatchet, sword, etc.) and is advancing within 30 ft, so I would think the same would apply to civilians. They must be advancing though. That being said, I have a measured distance of 30 feet at my range, and I practice at all sorts of random distances when I'm there. I never measure. Why? What's the point? If you're attacked in a real life situation, are you going to break out a tape measure and measure it off? Learn what 30ft and 21ft look like and just go from there.

Now just for useless knowledge, depending on what state you live in, those distances may not apply in your home. SC has the "castle doctrine" law that gives you a little more legal room for defending your home/property. For example (I had a cop tell me this and have had it confirmed by several others, all from different agencies within the state), if I'm in my house or yard or whatever and I see someone breaking into my car and stealing stuff out, and say I'm 50ft away (well being the usual self defense range), given I'm confident enough in doing so I can take a shot at him and be legally justified in doing so. Now pretty much all of them made it very clear that they did not recommend doing that at all, however legally there is nothing wrong with it. You have a legal right to use deadly force to protect your property in "your castle".

 

[Artista_co]

I practice draws at home, dry fire, etc. For at the range, I have downloaded a slew of drill scenarios at pistol-training.com » Drills

In general, for serious practice, 3-7+ yards. For fun though, go on..stretch it out - be silly. When I drill though, often I start on 3x5 cards at 3 yds.
1) Draw,
2) Assorted drillsdouble/triple tap, reload, clear jam, etc.

when I am up to speed with accuracy at that range, I go out yard by yard until I am pushing it.

Have fun. Remember: slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

 

[Dr. Dillner]

Thank you all for this valuable input.

 

[kelcarry]

What "realistic" setting do you project to have to use your firearm? That alone should answer your question.

However, I'll let you know how I train. I train at these distances: 3 yds, 5 yds, 7 yds, 10 yds, 15 yds, and 25 yds. Note, these are in yards, not feet. The reason I train at these distances is because these are the distances I will be at when I do firearms qualifications.

However, what are you training for? Is it self-defense? If so, anything past 7 yards is more than likely overkill, and the way I would train is to try to get off rounds quickly and in center of mass. Target shooting so you can hit a one inch by one inch square SLOWLY is not good training for self-defense. You want to be quick, accurate (on Center of Mass), and be able to get many rounds off quickly. There are many other drills that I would recommend if interested, but you only asked about distances.

If you are trying to target shoot, then any distance would be an interesting challenge. If you have a competition you are going to join, find out from them where the targets will be and how large. This will give you the answer you are looking for.

The above quote is an answer that really answers. I am just a 72 year old who has a lethal firearm whose only intent is to permanently stop someone who invades my occupied home or car (instant imminent threat of death under Castle Doctrine) or I can presume, as a reasonable person, is an imminent threat to me away from my home during my comings and goings. This all takes place, IMO, at distances less than 20 or 30 feet. Anything further is for the Dirty Harry's as far as I am concerned--if they are say 10 or 20 yards away from me they are not an imminent threat to me (kindly leave out "what if"--it is not in my vocabulary at that distance--whether you agree or not). My friends stand there and aim and aim and take their time shooting the lights out of the center of the target. i may do same with my 22, but when I am using my FN5.7X28, it is all about point shoot at a pie plate that represents center mass. If all my shots are in the pie plate within say a 2 inch area, my presumed imminent threat will not be a presumed threat to me or anyone anymore. So, as the quoted reply says--what is your intention? Target shooting is sport when it is the target you are trying to hit in that little middle dot. Target shooting is defensive training when it is the "center mass" of the target that you are trying to shoot in some kind of quick manner ala point shoot. I fail to understand what the purpose is when I see a fellow shooter near me carefully aiming his big caliber pistol at a target that is 50 yards away. If he has a reason, that is his reason and I cannot fault it--I just find it to be a waste of time and expensive cartridges.

 

[SigShooter77]

By the way you ask your question, I'm going to assume you mean for self defense. That being the case, 7yds (21ft) is the standard for max distance you can legally defend yourself with deadly force. Now don't quote me on this, but LEO's are trained to use deadly force when a suspect has a "bladed object" (knife, ax, hatchet, sword, etc.) and is advancing within 30 ft, so I would think the same would apply to civilians. They must be advancing though. That being said, I have a measured distance of 30 feet at my range, and I practice at all sorts of random distances when I'm there. I never measure. Why? What's the point? If you're attacked in a real life situation, are you going to break out a tape measure and measure it off? Learn what 30ft and 21ft look like and just go from there.

Now just for useless knowledge, depending on what state you live in, those distances may not apply in your home. SC has the "castle doctrine" law that gives you a little more legal room for defending your home/property. For example (I had a cop tell me this and have had it confirmed by several others, all from different agencies within the state), if I'm in my house or yard or whatever and I see someone breaking into my car and stealing stuff out, and say I'm 50ft away (well being the usual self defense range), given I'm confident enough in doing so I can take a shot at him and be legally justified in doing so. Now pretty much all of them made it very clear that they did not recommend doing that at all, however legally there is nothing wrong with it. You have a legal right to use deadly force to protect your property in "your castle".

Do you have a source for this? statutes or case law? I've never heard this before. (not disagreeing, just asking for information)

 

[AndeyHall]

Do you have a source for this? statutes or case law? I've never heard this before. (not disagreeing, just asking for information)

I don't but I'll try and find it, cause I'd actually like to see it myself. I'll ask my training Captain today since he's the one who originally told me about this.

 

[SigShooter77]

I don't but I'll try and find it, cause I'd actually like to see it myself. I'll ask my training Captain today since he's the one who originally told me about this.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I just read a website that basically said that you can only meet force with equal force, i.e. not escalate. Distance would seem to come into that equation in many situations. I am going to try to get my wife and me into an NRA protection outside the home course, would they cover things like this in that course?

 

[jcreek]

Do you have a source for this? statutes or case law? I've never heard this before. (not disagreeing, just asking for information)

I don't but I'll try and find it, cause I'd actually like to see it myself. I'll ask my training Captain today since he's the one who originally told me about this.

That is just a training procedure for LEOs as a good rule of thumb to show how fast somebody with a blade can be on top of you. There is no law or policy that says you can't engage somebody at further distance. The key is that you must feel your life was in imminent danger. The farther away the attacker is, the harder it can be to articulate in court that you felt your life was in danger but there is no set distance. If somebody is throwing knives at me from 30 ft, or is at a dead out sprint at me with a hatchet from 30 feet, I'm not going to wait until I think he is within 21 feet to stop the threat. I'm engaging as soon as I feel imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.

21 feet is just the minimum distance away a sprinting target must be for the average LEO or open carrier to be able to draw and get 2 shots off before getting stabbed, which is why it is used in training. Obviously, if your carrying concealed it will most likely take slightly longer to draw, increasing that distance.

 

[AndeyHall]

Thanks, I appreciate it. I just read a website that basically said that you can only meet force with equal force, i.e. not escalate. Distance would seem to come into that equation in many situations. I am going to try to get my wife and me into an NRA protection outside the home course, would they cover things like this in that course?

I'm not sure exactly what they would cover in those courses. To be honest I'm not a huge fan of the NRA because of some of the ass backward work they've done here in SC.

Equal force with equal force probably isn't the best way to put it because that makes it sound as if gun can only be used against gun, knife against knife, fists against fists, etc. But me being only 5'8" and 145-150lbs, I'm sure there are individuals out there who, with just fists, could justify me using deadly force. It really has nothing to do with "equal" force per se, but rather whether or not you believe yourself to be in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death. There are so many scenarios that would justify using deadly force there's no way to articulate them all, but at the same time you can take all of those deadly force scenarios and modify the situation by one very subtle detail and it may no longer be a deadly force situation. That takes judgement. The best way to practice that skill is to observe people when you're out in public. Imagine certain scenarios with certain individuals you observe and think to yourself whether deadly force would be necessary or not.

 

[telpinaro]

In regards to the 21 feet idea...

I can't speak for any particular state law, but I was just learning about this. It isn't actually a "law," more of a rule to go by based on the Tueller Drill. In case you haven't heard of that, a guy by the name of Dennis Tueller was teaching a self-defense handgun class, and they started talking about how far away a guy with a knife had to be to kill you before you can draw and fire. So they started timing it. The average time to draw and fire was about 1.5 seconds, and the average time it took for them to run 21 feet was also 1.5 seconds. So, if someone's got a knife and he's 21 feet away from you, deadly force is completely justified because you know he can get to you and kill you easily. I actually watched a lecture done by Dennis Tueller, and it was very interesting. He seemed kind of embarrassed by how much attention the "Tueller Drill" is getting... he wasn't planning on creating a new self-defense standard... his class had a question and he figured out how to answer it!

Unfortunately, my references can't be cited... I learned about it from the lecture and from Kathy Jackson's Cornered Cat defensive handgun class.

 

[CapGun]

Thank you all for this valuable input.

Besides the EMP being a great looking piece it is very well made and SA has great customer service. (not talking about their current problem which I have no firsthand knowledge of.)
The .40 is a good choice with the all steel frame. With only a 3" barrel it can be a handful. I decided to look up a review and found this one. You might
find it useful. Link Removed

 

[whodat2710]

If your concern is home defense and you are using a pistol, think about what your biggest room is, longest hallway etc. If you have a big living room, two rooms with open line of sight (kitchen/dining/living etc), or a long straight hallway it might be good to occasionally train at that distance. I have a decent size living room and a long straight hall from the back of the house that has line of sight to the front door through the living room. If I had to guess it's 30'-40', so I practice at that range occasionally with all my pistols.
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Something else to consider is the barrel length of your pistol and the range that it can be expected to be accurate if someone has average shooting skills. I know that my LCP with a 2.75" barrel is not my best choice of guns available to me for that range if I have a choice. You would be surprised at what a difference in "ease of accuracy" there is by simply adding another little to the barrel. My LC9 is 3.12" and my Ruger P95 is 4.5"
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The 21ft rule is as stated above regarding how long it takes to draw and fire before someone can be on you. Another thing to consider with that distance is being able to identify the actual threat. Can you see the evil in the persons eye from 21ft in poor lighting well enough for you to make a life or death decision? Just something to think about.

 

[wolf_fire]

Do you have a source for this? statutes or case law? I've never heard this before. (not disagreeing, just asking for information)

It's not statute or case law... it is called the Tueller Drill. Studies were done that a knife wielder 21 feet away from you could charge you and stab you within 2 seconds. The Tueller drill is a drill that trains you to recognize the threat, draw and shoot Center of Mass in UNDER 2 seconds. 1.5 seconds or better is preferred.

Here's an interesting take on the history of Dennis Tueller, the drill he came up with and this author's take on how it has morphed into sort of a "rule of thumb" for self-defense shooting.

The Tueller Drill Revisited

After I posted, I noticed telpinaro did a fine job of addressing this. Sorry to step on your toes telpinaro.

 

[telpinaro]

After I posted, I noticed telpinaro did a fine job of addressing this. Sorry to step on your toes telpinaro.

It's worth repeating :wink: Plus, you added the cool video. I didn't have a cool video.

 

[SigShooter77]

I've heard of the 7 yard rule of thumb before but never where it came from, thanks for the info.