And as I already mentioned... this library thing is far from over because this is one that needs to be taken all the way.
And using insulting name calling does not enhance the credibility or validity of your argument.
In which case he may well say "OK, hold on while I run your info through the computer..."
..And walk back a half hour later ordering you out, cuffed and the search proceeds with backup onsite as well.
What if he knew something about you already and just had to get the warrant approved OTAR?
What if, then? See how that works, logically in the other extreme.
In the case of a cop stopping me for open carrying, I would just cooperate and get it over with. Fighting for rights in a courtroom is another story.
Take the risk. I will not waive my rights for the sake of convenience.
I'm not quoting the rest of your post for brevity. Same thing happened when Seattled tried to ban firearms in parks and recreations facilities. Their claim was they were not an ordinance....they claimed their Parks and Recreation Department was enacting an administrative rule. There was no penalty for carrying a firearm in a park or recreaton facility, but persons caught carrying guns would be asked to leave, and if they didn't, the police would be called to enforce trespassing. The lower court declared their gun ban illegal, null and void, and ordered all "no guns" signs to be removed within 30 days. Seattle appealed to the court of appeals who upheld the ruling. Seattle tried to appeal to the Washington State Supreme Court who refused to hear the appeal because Seattle lacked any substantial claim. They got the smack down because concerned citizens, who also happen to be avid open carry supporters, called the city's bluff.
The fundamental problem you are coming up against in this discussion is trying to explain the concept of the illegitimate use of police authority to people who believe that ANY use of police authority is by definition legitimate, or at least not subject to lawful challenge.If you waive your rights every time a police officer stops you and voluntarily agree to the encounter with them, how do you ever expect it to get into the courtroom?
If you waive your rights every time a police officer stops you and voluntarily agree to the encounter with them, how do you ever expect it to get into the courtroom?
That's rather a foolish nonsequitur.Really? So then you carry a personal firearm every time you enter a military base, correct?
I GUARANTEE you that police misconduct won't be eliminated by fawning submission to it.Do you actually think that if you resist the officer will stop hassling people open carrying? This cop is back on the job:
Link Removed
SWAT Officer returns to work 3 months after shooting - Framingham, MA - The MetroWest Daily News
I GUARANTEE you that police misconduct won't be eliminated by fawning submission to it.
Really? So then you carry a personal firearm every time you enter a military base, correct?
So as an avid open carrier do you open carry on military bases? Are you protesting your inability to exercise your rights if you don't?
Rich_S, here is your problem. You cannot comprehend the difference between volunteering to serve in the US Military and volunteeriing to obey the laws and regulations that exist due to that military service - and refusing to comply with a request of a police officer that they have no legal authority to pursue if I refuse. Two entirely different scenarios and situations.
Here is your problem:
You voluntarily allow just about every human right you have to be controlled by others and then you jump down someone's throat because they choose to show an ID or etc. to end a confrontation and not exercise their rights as YOU think they should. That pretty much makes everything you say a joke.
And Harless lost his job.This cop killed someone. He's back on the job....no harm/no foul. What would you think would happen if someone complained about being stopped for open carry? If you guessed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you, sir, would be correct.
Here's your problem:Here is your problem:
Let me first apologize to everyone for the length of my response. I surely hope folks will bear with me and read the whole thing... even if it puts them to sleep.. because it contains some very interesting points... and not all of it is a response to just croute's post..Good point bikenut. Sorry for the name calling, I think the names I've been called in here are getting to me! Guess I'm beginning to stoop to the levels of others. Can't remember who said it and I'm not willing to take the time to go back and find out, but I agree that battles should be chosen wisely. In the case of a cop stopping me for open carrying, I would just cooperate and get it over with. Fighting for rights in a courtroom is another story.
I'm also concerned with anyone giving "the powers that be" more ammunition to take away more of our rights. I may be wrong and have no stats to back it up, but I believe the majority of citizens don't understand people who carry guns. And, if we cause a situation where we look bad, it just gives them another reason not to side with us, then petition the government to do something about it. I think that's a losing situation for all of us.
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