Asked to leave Kohl's for OC.

[SouthernBoy]

I've OC'd in my local Kohl's many many times and have never had the slightest of problems.

 

[Unfettered Might]

Please allow me to clarify my personal opinion for everyone.

Mr. Mark Fiorino exercised extremely poor judgement in that circumstance. PERIOD.

If he were DEAD now,
would that be better?

Allow me to clarify my opinion for you. If you would be so kind as to pick a direction on the compass and please travel far enough to cross the border. The rest of us, Constitutional Republic loving Americans, would be greatly appreciative.

 

[handgonnetoter]

On one hand, Dr Suzanna Hupp became one of the greatest champions for CC.

On the other, I'm sure she would have rather had her parents.

That had to be a hard one for you though. I wouldn't lose a wink over killing a BG like that, but I would probably have had a few sleepless nights over thinking what I could have done if I had still been there.

Just how it is sometimes.

You might have either saved the day or ended up in trouble yourself. I guess you will never know on that one.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Allow me to clarify my opinion for you. If you would be so kind as to pick a direction on the compass and please travel far enough to cross the border. The rest of us, Constitutional Republic loving Americans, would be greatly appreciative.

Thank you Sir for your considered opinion.
I fully support the Constitution of the United States of America.
I believe that law abiding citizens should be allowed to freely exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.
If someone choses to carry, I believe that he should be able to carry unfettered.

My opinion has been fully expressed previously, and some agree with me.

Your words reveal that you do not believe in freedoms for anyone who disagrees with you. How sad for you that you cannot distinguish the difference.

Freedom is not the question. Exercising good judgement is the point.

In combat it is always better to live to fight another day.
As Patton said, "The point is not to die for your country, but to make the enemy die for his."

I dare say that some opinions expressed on this thread make it obvious that the posters have never been in an actual confrontation situation but are living vicariously in the movies. Trust me, it is not the fun and games.

Thank you again for you considered opinions.

OH- by the way..... yesterday afternoon I was in a situation with 2 men attempting to break into my car at a restaurant. The police chief and I have been good friends for 40 years and I have his cell number. eta 2 minutes. thumbs up :laugh:

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I felt impressed to share this information for mutual benefit:
___________________________________________________________________
"Of course, name-calling, expletives, ad hominems and physical attacks are the refuge of the ignorant. It's a convenient fallback position for those unable or unwilling to defend their positions with facts.

"It is also a common practice of the ignorant to automatically assign evil motives to a person or group expressing a counter opinion. Many reach the conclusion that any person or any group that disagrees politically or philosophically is somehow bad and intends to inflict as much harm or heartache as possible on their opponents.

"It is the refuge of the ignorant to interrupt or shut down debate when he finds his position or opinion cannot be defended with fact or reason." Bob Livingston, political commentator
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's a "dirty debate trick" called argumentum ad hominem. If you can't attack the man's argument successfully, attack the man". Massad Ayoob, LEO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No matter what side you take on any issue, you are going to be targeted for idiotic hate speech by the mindless social networking haters who invoke their hate outbursts as a kind of mental masturbation. They "get off" on destroying everyone else while reducing reasoned conversations to linguistic seizures sprinkled with spite". Mike Adams, Natural News, "about Facebook"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Freedom of speech is our most precious right and anyone who speaks against it should be silenced."

Thank you for your support.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, however
I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!"

 

[Unfettered Might]

Thank you Sir for your considered opinion.
I fully support the Constitution of the United States of America.
I believe that law abiding citizens should be allowed to freely exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.
If someone choses to carry, I believe that he should be able to carry unfettered.

My opinion has been fully expressed previously, and some agree with me.

Your words reveal that you do not believe in freedoms for anyone who disagrees with you. How sad for you that you cannot distinguish the difference.

Freedom is not the question. Exercising good judgement is the point.

In combat it is always better to live to fight another day.
As Patton said, "The point is not to die for your country, but to make the enemy die for his."

I dare say that some opinions expressed on this thread make it obvious that the posters have never been in an actual confrontation situation but are living vicariously in the movies. Trust me, it is not the fun and games.

Thank you again for you considered opinions.

OH- by the way..... yesterday afternoon I was in a situation with 2 men attempting to break into my car at a restaurant. The police chief and I have been good friends for 40 years and I have his cell number. eta 2 minutes. thumbs up :laugh:

If you think that individual was wrong for expressing his constitutionally protected right, then you DO NOT SUPPORT the Constitution. There is no way to argue around that and trying to put me on the spot by saying that I do not support it because I consider any affront to the Constitution treasonous, is a weak argument.

Support it in it's entirety and don't pretend to only when it serves your purpose. Freedom is exactly what is at question here, good judgement be damned. Thats another way of saying, "I support it, unless I don't think what you are doing is right".

Take for example, you feel I have offended your right to freedom of speech....ok well that LEO offended that man's right to carry a firearm. That it's a gun, or that the guy didn't have it concealed, or blah blah blah is just a way to overcomplicated such a simple concept. You've experienced the pang of someone trying to deny you your right....the same thing happened to this man. You should empathize with him as he is experiencing the same feeling you just did.

We all should empathize with him, or anyone else for that matter, on any of the amendments, 2nd, 1st, 4th, 3rd, doesn't matter.

If you do not support the Constitution in it's entirety, then you do not deserve it.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

If you think that individual was wrong for expressing his constitutionally protected right, then you DO NOT SUPPORT the Constitution. There is no way to argue around that and trying to put me on the spot by saying that I do not support it because I consider any affront to the Constitution treasonous, is a weak argument.

If you do not support the Constitution in it's entirety, then you do not deserve it.

click this link
See if you can understand this.
Link Removed

 

[Gordon Shumway]

One thing about it,

if it had been me in Kohls, or walking that Philly street (on that other thread),
nobody would have noticed,
nobody would be upset,
no weapons would have been drawn,
no handcuffs would have been used,

I would still have been fully protected,

and we wouldn't have anything to post about.

 

[NavyLCDR]

One thing about it,

if it had been me in Kohls, or walking that Philly street (on that other thread),
nobody would have noticed,
nobody would be upset,
no weapons would have been drawn,
no handcuffs would have been used,

I would still have been fully protected,

and we wouldn't have anything to post about.

And there's nothing wrong with your choice of carry method. And there's nothing wrong with the persons' choice of open carry either, as long as either choice is not prohibited by law.

 

[usmarine01]

Your way

I agree Be safe Carry On.

 

[SouthernBoy]

And there's nothing wrong with your choice of carry method. And there's nothing wrong with the persons' choice of open carry either, as long as either choice is not prohibited by law.

Mornin' Navy, how's it going?

It never ceases to amaze me that there is so much friction between the CC and the OC crowd, with most of it being generated by CC'ers who somehow believe that OC'ers are going to mess up the party for everyone. We are all in the same boat regardless of what mode of carry we do so we really need to get on the same page and pull together. If not, we are just feeding those who would love nothing better than for us to give them fodder for our own demise.

Your comment here is dead on the money. I support both modes of carry and do both, though most always I open carry. I support those who chose to CC 100% of the time and don't question their reasons for doing such. And I expect the same level of respect and support from them as well.

 

[Axeanda45]

Hey Shumway...... Have you ACTUALLY read the article you are linking to there?

You are calling that guy an idiot for actually following the law! He did what he had to do to stay within the law, and to keep others safe (and to keep his firearms safe from theft). What is your problem with what he did?

 

[Unfettered Might]

click this link
See if you can understand this.
Link Removed

Yep sure can, its a perfect example of how the media has turned public opinion in a negative direction and people reacted accordingly.You don't ever hear stories about someone OCing and nothing happened do you? The ones where someone was carrying a firearm and killed people are the only ones that make the nightly news.

So what that tells me is MORE people need to OC, not less. Thanks for the help in proving one of my points (though not from this thread).

 

[NavyLCDR]

Yep sure can, its a perfect example of how the media has turned public opinion in a negative direction and people reacted accordingly.You don't ever hear stories about someone OCing and nothing happened do you? The ones where someone was carrying a firearm and killed people are the only ones that make the nightly news.

So what that tells me is MORE people need to OC, not less. Thanks for the help in proving one of my points (though not from this thread).

Sure would make some very interesting 5:00 news: Man exercises right to self-protection. Nobody noticed or cared. Back to you, Dave. Happens to me every day.

 

[Nightmare45]

Texas is concealed carry only, hoping open carry will pass, if it does, have the option.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Traveled to another state this week.
My CCW is legal there. OC is legal there.

I saw ONE person OC.

How interesting it was to see a legal OC confronted, while I stood there CCW and observed how he DIDN'T convince the general public that his OC should make them feel all warm and fuzzy.

Ah, but look how he furthered the 2nd Amendment. Thumbs up.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Traveled to another state this week.
My CCW is legal there. OC is legal there.

I saw ONE person OC.

How interesting it was to see a legal OC confronted, while I stood there CCW and observed how he DIDN'T convince the general public that his OC should make them feel all warm and fuzzy.

Ah, but look how he furthered the 2nd Amendment. Thumbs up.

I will bet you a paycheck that there were a whole bunch of people who said EXACTLY the same thing about Rosa Louise McCauley Parks on December 1, 1955. Just because you don't have the gonads to exercise your rights, don't belittle those that do.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I will bet you a paycheck that there were a whole bunch of people who said EXACTLY the same thing about Rosa Louise McCauley Parks on December 1, 1955. Just because you don't have the gonads to exercise your rights, don't belittle those that do.

Philly Police Harass, Threaten to Shoot Man Legally Carrying Gun - Stossel's Take Blog - FOXBusiness.com

"A new investigation was launched, and last month the District Attorney's Office decided to charge Fiorino with reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct because, a spokeswoman said, he refused to cooperate with police... He's scheduled for trial in July."

 

[4070BN]

Philly Police Harass, Threaten to Shoot Man Legally Carrying Gun - Stossel's Take Blog - FOXBusiness.com

"A new investigation was launched, and last month the District Attorney's Office decided to charge Fiorino with reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct because, a spokeswoman said, he refused to cooperate with police... He's scheduled for trial in July."

And Now the Rest of the Story....Link Removed

For those not from Pennsylvania, Philly has been sued numerous times over their harassment of both OC, CC and firearms owners in general, with the outcome of losing. Pa Law states that no Municipality, Twp can regulate firearms law. Philly just doesn't get the message.

The infighting between CC and OC needs to stop. Neither side is going to change the others sides mind and all this arguing does is give anti-gunners ammo.