AR15s, the camel's nose,the2A and what are you going to do or say.

[CapGun]

It has been questioned in this site why would the average citizen want or need an "assault"weapon.
The answer is uncomfortable for most people, even people that say they support the Second Amendment. As our inspired "Founding Fathers" understood and put it forth was to insure our ability to protect ourselves from enemies both foreign and domestic. This include keeping our very own government (you know those people we elect that just get carried away with their own importance and power) in check. To be able to deliver us from tyranny both hard and soft.
Now if you are one to "trust your government then you are correct, we don't need and shouldn't have AR 15s.
On the other hand if you look at what is going on and sometimes wonder what the hell is going on and think that our elected officials not only don't understand our constitution they may have never bothered to "find out what's in it" even though it has already been passed then you can easily know that AR 15s and high capacity magazines are necessary for the defense of our constitution. This not to say that they are necessary to take up arms in revolt against our government,this not the reason in my mind. Having such firepower by many of our law abiding, country loving fellow Americans serves to remind our elected officials and "leaders" like a giant neon
sign in each of their bedrooms that flashed "DON'T TREAD ON ME"!
If you give the knee jerk crowd the opportunity to reimpose the Gun Control act, that would be not just "the CAMELS NOSE under the tent" but in the aftermath of this atrocity at the very least his whole head!
It's time to cut back on the "what you would have done" to save the day verbiage and focus on what we are going to do to save out 2A RIGHTS and access to our tools to protect ourselves and to keep the government mindful of the Constitution and to not TREAD ON US!

 

[Purple]

If you give the knee jerk crowd the opportunity to reimpose the Gun Control act, that would be not just "the CAMELS NOSE under the tent" but in the aftermath of this atrocity at the very least his whole head!

It's time to cut back on the "what you would have done" to save the day verbiage and focus on what we are going to do to save out 2A RIGHTS and access to our tools to protect ourselves and to keep the government mindful of the Constitution and to not TREAD ON US!

I've said it another thread and I will reiterate it here as well. We cannot allow the debate to focus on gun control in wake of the horrific events in Aurora, Colorado. We need to demand that a root cause analysis be done prior to any debate about corrective measures to prevent future occurrences. We need to demand that the focus be on the individual and not the tool and to make better social programs or assistance available to those who would harm the rest of us. You cannot legislate evil and some people are just that - evil. We need to demand that equal media time be given to the fact that this evil also obtained or built explosive devices in order to kill, and there are already laws (state and federal) that make it felony from start to finish - those law sure prevented evil from doing what evil wanted.

There will always be evil in the world and as a society we have to remember that and make certain that due justice is done once evil is captured. When evil steps on our doorstep, we need to make certain we have identified it and taken the necessary steps to not be a victim - whatever that is and use whatever tool we can to prevent it.

 

[SGB]

#1 - The AR15 is NOT an assault rifle.

#2 - The worst mass killings have been in countries with DRACONIAN gun control laws.

Gun Control will not hamper an individual set on killing.

 

[Bighouse Doc]

Russia Has far more mass murders than we do. The state controlled media keeps a lid on them!

-Doc

 

[CapGun]

#1 - The AR15 is NOT an assault rifle.

#2 - The worst mass killings have been in countries with DRACONIAN gun control laws.

Gun Control will not hamper an individual set on killing.

If you are referring to my post I agree with you about the term "assault" that is why I put it in quotes!
You are also correct on point two.

 

[CapGun]

I've said it another thread and I will reiterate it here as well. We cannot allow the debate to focus on gun control in wake of the horrific events in Aurora, Colorado. We need to demand that a root cause analysis be done prior to any debate about corrective measures to prevent future occurrences. We need to demand that the focus be on the individual and not the tool and to make better social programs or assistance available to those who would harm the rest of us. You cannot legislate evil and some people are just that - evil. We need to demand that equal media time be given to the fact that this evil also obtained or built explosive devices in order to kill, and there are already laws (state and federal) that make it felony from start to finish - those law sure prevented evil from doing what evil wanted.

There will always be evil in the world and as a society we have to remember that and make certain that due justice is done once evil is captured. When evil steps on our doorstep, we need to make certain we have identified it and taken the necessary steps to not be a victim - whatever that is and use whatever tool we can to prevent it.

I have to agree with you but in view of what I was hearing on TV and what I was reading here I was trying to be somewhat preemptive and get as many people to think about how to counter act the usual general response to this atrocity.
I do not use the term tragedy. The term tragedy to me means the unfortunate loss of life due to any unplanned circumstance that caused it. ie: Thw car tire blew out and the operator lost control killing all occupants. There are many others but you get the point.
The pain that those victims and their are hopefully foreign to most of us. What comes to mind that there had to be signs that were ignored for any number of reasons. Signs that if deeply considered might have prevented this. I believe that is what should be concentrated on. To train ourselves to be sensitive to such signs and overcome denial and not to put the method used for such destruction as the main concern because those people will use any other method of achieving their terror if their first choice is not available!
Again, I hope in due time we can prepare to point out what gives tyranny the first foothold and be prepared to deal with those questions intelligently and not emotionally as many will.

 

[fnsmoak]

What I posted on my FB page and my GUNSMOAK.com status:

MASS SHOOTINGS are caused by POLITICIANS pandering to the liberal do-gooders and gun-grabbers. When media calls me to discuss happenings such as occurred last week in Colorado, they already KNOW my answer. They simply seek snippets of recorded conversation to manipulate my words to make me seem the booger-man they wish me to be. HOWEVER, if they were in a crowded GUN FREE ZONE with someone screaming ALLAH AKGBARR, they would be steppin' and fetchin' to get behind me as I lay down a wall of lead to extinguish a threat. The next day, they would revert back to the lyin', backstabbin', Obama-fyin' jack-waggons we know them to be. BUT THANKS FOR CALLING TO OFFER THE INTERVIEW!!

fnsmoak
aka GUNSMOAK.com

 

[CapGun]

What I posted on my FB page and my GUNSMOAK.com status:

MASS SHOOTINGS are caused by POLITICIANS pandering to the liberal do-gooders and gun-grabbers. When media calls me to discuss happenings such as occurred last week in Colorado, they already KNOW my answer. They simply seek snippets of recorded conversation to manipulate my words to make me seem the booger-man they wish me to be. HOWEVER, if they were in a crowded GUN FREE ZONE with someone screaming ALLAH AKGBARR, they would be steppin' and fetchin' to get behind me as I lay down a wall of lead to extinguish a threat. The next day, they would revert back to the lyin', backstabbin', Obama-fyin' jack-waggons we know them to be. BUT THANKS FOR CALLING TO OFFER THE INTERVIEW!!

fnsmoak
aka GUNSMOAK.com

You are sooooooo right and correct! Experience has been your teacher.

 

[Nightmare45]

Experience tells me gun free zones are where you want to be to get killed. If there were no gun free zones the bad guy might feel he could get killed and not act. Unabridged 2nd Amendment. Peace, Love, Colt 45.

 

[fstroupe]

It does not matter that technically an AR15 and derivatives are not assault rifles. Do you think that the left really cares? We're talking about the same left that thinks abortion is not murder, and that a woman has the God-given right to murder her unborn child.

Any gun ban in this country will include all "black guns" with high cap magazines.

 

[Shoobee]

"Assault rifle" is Stoner's translation of Adolf's characterization of the Sturmgewehr 42. What it is or is not is just an argument over semantics.

Although this mass shooting incident will probably blow over, like all the other ones have, it will cause a fair amount of reflection on where the line for 2A should be drawn --

- fully auto
- semi auto
- pump action
- bolt action
- lever action

In the 1920s they drew the line at fully auto. That was long before the invention of the German sturmgewehr and the Russian kalashnikov. Now in the USA we also have the Armalite rifles. So where should the line be drawn? And why? Doomsday prepping?

You can just as easily varmint hunt with a pump action, bolt action or lever action.

But no matter what happens regarding legislation, shooters will always be able to get guns and blast away. Just not as many as 100 rounds in a minute, if they need to operate a lever or a pump action.

So you can't stop the killing sprees, you can only reduce the carnage a bit.

This guy could even have blown up or torched the movie theatres if he wanted to, he did not even need guns. But he chose a semi auto and a pump action to do it.

 

[SR40c]

Exactly. He could have just as easily jumped in a car or truck and ran over everyone standing in line to get in a half hour before the doors opened rather than shooting people a half hour after the movie started. Banning guns and or extended magazines will do nothing to stop these situations.

 

[Hawkeye638]

It has been questioned in this site why would the average citizen want or need an "assault"weapon.

Do you recall the 1992 LA riots where the Korean shop owners took to their roofs with AR-15's and other weapons to protect their stores"

 

[fuhr52]

Keep in mind, liberals are not interested in solutions. Their main concern is feelings and good intentions. If they cared about solutions the war on poverty would have been scrapped years ago.

 

[fstroupe]

Do you recall the 1992 LA riots where the Korean shop owners took to their roofs with AR-15's and other weapons to protect their stores"

I really don't care enough about "black guns" to own one. I shot plenty of the real thing while in the army, and do like to look at them, but can't see myself buying one. I'd be more likely to buy a Mini 14 or M1A....I rather like the feel of real wood in my hands. But I do not want the option taken from me or anyone else.

The AR issue really does have historic precedence. First one must understand the Second Amendment. "Regulated Militia" means a militia that has equipment equivalent to the Regular Army, or so it has been explained myriad times.

The average American while the Second Amendment was being written, owned a more "high-speed" weapon than those issued by the military. Whether called "Kentucky Rifle", "Pennsylvania Rifle", "squirrel rifle", "American Long Rifle", "Deckard Rifle", or a few other names, the hunting rifles owned by individuals before, during, and after the American Revolution were more accurate and deadly than the "Brown Bess" smoothbore musket issued to Continental Soldiers during the Revolution. The first rifles were purchased by the US government in 1792.

These rifles played a part in the Revolution....the idea in the movie "The Patriot" of shooting the officers first really happened in the Battle of Cowpens. Rifles crafted by German-Speaking craftsmen in their own hands in NC and SC Militia were used for this purpose.

As soon as the militia had taken position in the open woods, Major McDowell, accompanied by about 60 picked marksmen from his command, and Major John Cunningham, with a like number of Georgia sharpshooters, advanced about 150 yards and took position as skirmishers, Cunningham's people on the left and McDowell's on the right. Their orders were to take aim at the "epaulet-men"...the front line officers of Tarleton's forces.

( Battle of Cowpens - The Free Information Society sorry for the tiny font....I wrote the essay but this isn't my site)

 

[CapGun]

Do you recall the 1992 LA riots where the Korean shop owners took to their roofs with AR-15's and other weapons to protect their stores"

I DO! it works for me! That alone is a good enough reason NOT to ban them!

 

[CapGun]

"Assault rifle" is Stoner's translation of Adolf's characterization of the Sturmgewehr 42. What it is or is not is just an argument over semantics.

Although this mass shooting incident will probably blow over, like all the other ones have, it will cause a fair amount of reflection on where the line for 2A should be drawn --

- fully auto
- semi auto
- pump action
- bolt action
- lever action

In the 1920s they drew the line at fully auto. That was long before the invention of the German sturmgewehr and the Russian kalashnikov. Now in the USA we also have the Armalite rifles. So where should the line be drawn? And why? Doomsday prepping?

You can just as easily varmint hunt with a pump action, bolt action or lever action.

But no matter what happens regarding legislation, shooters will always be able to get guns and blast away. Just not as many as 100 rounds in a minute, if they need to operate a lever or a pump action.

So you can't stop the killing sprees, you can only reduce the carnage a bit.

This guy could even have blown up or torched the movie theatres if he wanted to, he did not even need guns. But he chose a semi auto and a pump action to do it.

Wow shobee we agree on this. I was thinking he could have done much more damage just by using a few molitive cocktails or some similar incendiary device. Where there is a will these maniacs will find another way.
BTW I think that today or yesterday is the one year anniversary of the mass shooting attach that happened in Norway. 72 killed there.

 

[Shoobee]

Do you recall the 1992 LA riots where the Korean shop owners took to their roofs with AR-15's and other weapons to protect their stores"

If I were going to perform riot protection I would want a high capacity pump action shotgun, sort of like the Remington that Holmes had at the theatre in Aurora, not an Armalite Rifle model or clone like the one that jammed on him there.

With a pump action shotgun you need to reload more, but it's guaranteed. I have never seen a pump action jam.

Had the Koreans actually had to shoot their ARs in LA, which they did not, they just stood there looking fierce, then had they shot them the bullets would have gone on and on for a mile or more causing all sorts of collateral damage. Ergo these are not great civil defense guns. Shotguns are still better.

 

[Shoobee]

I really don't care enough about "black guns" to own one. I shot plenty of the real thing while in the army, and do like to look at them, but can't see myself buying one. I'd be more likely to buy a Mini 14 or M1A....I rather like the feel of real wood in my hands. But I do not want the option taken from me or anyone else.

The AR issue really does have historic precedence. First one must understand the Second Amendment. "Regulated Militia" means a militia that has equipment equivalent to the Regular Army, or so it has been explained myriad times.

The average American while the Second Amendment was being written, owned a more "high-speed" weapon than those issued by the military. Whether called "Kentucky Rifle", "Pennsylvania Rifle", "squirrel rifle", "American Long Rifle", "Deckard Rifle", or a few other names, the hunting rifles owned by individuals before, during, and after the American Revolution were more accurate and deadly than the "Brown Bess" smoothbore musket issued to Continental Soldiers during the Revolution. The first rifles were purchased by the US government in 1792.

These rifles played a part in the Revolution....the idea in the movie "The Patriot" of shooting the officers first really happened in the Battle of Cowpens. Rifles crafted by German-Speaking craftsmen in their own hands in NC and SC Militia were used for this purpose.
( Battle of Cowpens - The Free Information Society sorry for the tiny font....I wrote the essay but this isn't my site)

The Ruger Mini 14s and 30s actually perform more reliably than the ARs do. And with their open bolt design, they are easy to clear if they jam.

Never had one jam on me though.