An open letter to icemanmpls


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LiveBlues

Chuck & Ted 2012
I've seen you called a troll and many other things for your very vocal attacks on the religous people of this forum. Thread after thread of you bullying those same people. Public posts about how you were reporting this thread or this poster to Luke. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt about your motivation.

Before I go on, I will go on record as saying that I am not a religous person, and yes, sometimes the religous bent that some threads tend to take can be onerous at best. However, I can quickly see the direction a thread is taking and stop following it if I do not like the direction it takes.

With that said, I have seen the Religion and Guns sub forum that has been created, likely because of you and other members. I had never visited it until tonight because it was not something that I was interested in participating in.

Why did I visit it tonight? Because I was looking at the list of sub forums and I saw that the last poster in the most recent thread was from you. I thought to myself, "what?" Why would you visit this forum if you were so against threads of that nature? After I read the thread, I understand now. You either have an agenda, or you take great pleasure in tormenting people who have beliefs that run contrary to yours. I don't really understand that mentality, and I have a new found feeling of empathy for those folks here who have been bullied by you, even if my belief system runs counter to theirs.

The bottom line as I see it is yes, you are a troll, and yes, I feel that this great site would be a better place if you were no longer around.

Luke, feel free to delete this post, or ban me for speaking my peace.
 

I've seen you called a troll and many other things for your very vocal attacks on the religous people of this forum. Thread after thread of you bullying those same people. Public posts about how you were reporting this thread or this poster to Luke. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt about your motivation.

Before I go on, I will go on record as saying that I am not a religous person, and yes, sometimes the religous bent that some threads tend to take can be onerous at best. However, I can quickly see the direction a thread is taking and stop following it if I do not like the direction it takes.

With that said, I have seen the Religion and Guns sub forum that has been created, likely because of you and other members. I had never visited it until tonight because it was not something that I was interested in participating in.

Why did I visit it tonight? Because I was looking at the list of sub forums and I saw that the last poster in the most recent thread was from you. I thought to myself, "what?" Why would you visit this forum if you were so against threads of that nature? After I read the thread, I understand now. You either have an agenda, or you take great pleasure in tormenting people who have beliefs that run contrary to yours. I don't really understand that mentality, and I have a new found feeling of empathy for those folks here who have been bullied by you, even if my belief system runs counter to theirs.

The bottom line as I see it is yes, you are a troll, and yes, I feel that this great site would be a better place if you were no longer around.

Luke, feel free to delete this post, or ban me for speaking my peace.

I share your sentiments.
 
I don't remember attacking anyone. I didn't know I was banned from posting anywhere on this site.
Mr Blues, you can write all the open letters you want. This has been done before. The admin/mods don't care for it.
If I am banned for speaking my mind, then I am banned.
Have a wonderful day Mr Blues.
 
I am a relative newbie here but I can easily see that many people left here recently. I stated my position rather plainly recently about his motives. When all the "good guys" leave it only leaves the chaff or "tares" to grow. If that is the kind of situation one desires for his site then he is successful. I can handle most any athiest/agnostic/unbeliever for I know what I know. It is the poor "babe" that gets mislead because of malicious, planned, and underhanded comments. Yep, I said it. That is the way I see it. I honestly try to be a voice of reason and not stir the pot but sometimes one just has to take a stand.
 
I don't remember attacking anyone. I didn't know I was banned from posting anywhere on this site.
Mr Blues, you can write all the open letters you want. This has been done before. The admin/mods don't care for it.
If I am banned for speaking my mind, then I am banned.
Have a wonderful day Mr Blues.

Your post only backs up mine. Of course you are not banned from posting anywhere on this site. The fact that you actively seek to negatively post in a place the you were instrumental in creating by your opposition to the content goes a long way to explain your legacy here.

It's a shame really. I have read many of your posts that were informative and helpful, but then you digress. The bottom line should be that if you dont like the content of the thread, then ignore it. Move on to something else. Be it another thread, or a different board, it doesn't matter. Life is too short to be an ass.
 
As disclosure, I'm personally religious and I'm not sure if religion should be a distinct focus on a personal defense firearms forum. I'm especially skeptical that the sub-forum rules can be enforced as written: "...please refrain from ALL FIGHTING, BICKERING, and INSTIGATING."

In the history of religion almost nobody has been able to discuss all points of religion without it getting a bit heated. The rules themselves are impossible to sustain unless every reply is a chorus of "Amen." For that matter, people can't talk about American Idol without bickering.

Playing devil's advocate here...
People participate in discussions where they feel motivated. Motivation drives determination. Strong beliefs drive strongly worded posts. Firm beliefs that are counter to posts that refute such beliefs generate indignation, anger, refutation of claims. The questioning of a belief is seen as an attack by those not firm in their beliefs. I myself feel sure about my beliefs and I do not feel threatened by people writing books or movies refuting the existence of God, much less anyone posting comments on the forum.
 
Your post only backs up mine. Of course you are not banned from posting anywhere on this site. The fact that you actively seek to negatively post in a place the you were instrumental in creating by your opposition to the content goes a long way to explain your legacy here.

It's a shame really. I have read many of your posts that were informative and helpful, but then you digress. The bottom line should be that if you dont like the content of the thread, then ignore it. Move on to something else. Be it another thread, or a different board, it doesn't matter. Life is too short to be an ass.

It's an incurable disorder that is ongoing. It's gotten worse over time. Utilize the function in your user CP Titled IGNORE. It is a valuable tool that has been provided by the management here. And going forward don't quote the user and his posts will remain out of view...

Just some information from a member who has been watching this disease progress and wondering if it's fatal?:sarcastic:

Peace...
 
It's an incurable disorder that is ongoing. It's gotten worse over time. Utilize the function in your user CP Titled IGNORE. It is a valuable tool that has been provided by the management here. And going forward don't quote the user and his posts will remain out of view...

Just some information from a member who has been watching this disease progress and wondering if it's fatal?:sarcastic:

Peace...

Heres to hoping.
 
If those who speak their minds are trolls, then wouldn't every individual be considered a troll at one point or another? The fact of the matter is, Iceman, from my reading, has brought up a lot of valuable points worth looking into. The fact of the matter is that many members on this forum are hyper-sensitive with thin skin. This trait automatically brings about a defense mechanism that causes many members to call him a troll. To be honest, most of you are abusing the power of calling someone a troll. Just because this man does not subscribe to the theory that guns and God are interwoven does not make him the troll.

Stop and think for a moment, this forum represents a minority of indiviudals in the United States that have taken it upon themselves to carry firearms on a daily basis. They walk around with guns loaded, concealed or openly carried into stores, malls, churches, and everywhere else. Why? Because this NEOCON (neo-conservative) party has spawned fear into the hearts of Americans all over the United States. So in reality, while iceman is labeled a troll on this microcosm of American society, many of you are labeled trolls every day for carrying guns everywhere. But your mind is not going to be changed by those liberals who look at you with disgust and fear for carrying a weapon around, so why should you berate this man for his viewpoints?


The idea that it is your GOD given right to own a firearm and take a life is completely out of control. The ideology of striking down infidels with your GOD given right sounds eerily similar to the ideology of those in the middle east. Both the NEOCONS and the extremeist fundamentalists share the same basic viewpoints. That is what bothers me, not an individual speaking his miind. After all, we are in the the land of FREEDOM, so stop trying to silence it.
 
Trolls feed on attention and disruption threads like this provide both.

He doesn't seem to qualify as a troll as his postings are relevant to the topic at hand. It is the erroneous spin off comments of other members that direct the thread in a negative direction.

For clarification.

The term troll is subjective. There are many characteristics of a troll. The retarded people of course don't want to hear how corrupt the society is getting, so they claim to not "feed the trolls" by ignoring them. Trolls have been referred to in the web community as, trollers, jerks, and scum of the earth. In reality, the real trolls are the people who ignore the so-called trolls who were only just trying to reveal the problems with society. However, that could have been avoided by the accuser if they were able to control their emotional immaturity and instead find ways to solve the social issue
 
If those who speak their minds are trolls, then wouldn't every individual be considered a troll at one point or another?
+1
How boring would it be if everyone was the same. Same look, same clothes, same job, same THOUGHT, bots mindlessly agreeing in a commonly boring manner about the conduct of everyday life in public and in private.

I could go to church for that. I go on the Internet for stimulation, debate, controversy, sharing information and learning new stuff from people I don't know.

Go to the ranch if you need cozy, uncontested agreement with like-minded individuals.

If not, stay here and get with the program. :pleasantry:

Just don't condemn me for whatever I say or think because you disagree. Try to change my mind - but do it respectfully. Sheeesh, get over yourselves. Anyone obnoxious enough to poison the environment will be dealt with by the site operators. Not any member's concern.
 
The term troll is subjective.
Not unless you are trying to justify your trolling. Trolls are troublemakers. The symbolism goes back to the dark ages, applied to modern web forums. What's trouble for some people is not getting their way or having their viewpoints blindly accepted.

Get over yourself. Or troll. Or do whatever. But I'm not buying it. Tough.

Troll on. Troll off. Suit yourself. :pleasantry:
 
Man, I think I need to maybe get on a forum that talks more about guns than anything else. This thread was general firearms, not General Hospital. :wacko:
 
If those who speak their minds are trolls, then wouldn't every individual be considered a troll at one point or another? The fact of the matter is, Iceman, from my reading, has brought up a lot of valuable points worth looking into. The fact of the matter is that many members on this forum are hyper-sensitive with thin skin. This trait automatically brings about a defense mechanism that causes many members to call him a troll. To be honest, most of you are abusing the power of calling someone a troll. Just because this man does not subscribe to the theory that guns and God are interwoven does not make him the troll.

Stop and think for a moment, this forum represents a minority of indiviudals in the United States that have taken it upon themselves to carry firearms on a daily basis. They walk around with guns loaded, concealed or openly carried into stores, malls, churches, and everywhere else. Why? Because this NEOCON (neo-conservative) party has spawned fear into the hearts of Americans all over the United States. So in reality, while iceman is labeled a troll on this microcosm of American society, many of you are labeled trolls every day for carrying guns everywhere. But your mind is not going to be changed by those liberals who look at you with disgust and fear for carrying a weapon around, so why should you berate this man for his viewpoints?



The idea that it is your GOD given right to own a firearm and take a life is completely out of control. The ideology of striking down infidels with your GOD given right sounds eerily similar to the ideology of those in the middle east. Both the NEOCONS and the extremeist fundamentalists share the same basic viewpoints. That is what bothers me, not an individual speaking his miind. After all, we are in the the land of FREEDOM, so stop trying to silence it.

This is the funniest damn thing I have read on this site in a while. We carry guns because a political party made us afraid? How is that? The movement to allow concealed carry really took off in the mid 90's, before a Bush White House was a glimmer in anyone's eye. The only fear being spread was that ignorance still being spread by anti's that allowing private ownership/carry of guns will lead to disaster. What exactly led you to this conclusion about gun owners/carriers being afraid? Did you read it on the Huffington Post?

People believe our rights come from our creator because our founders formed the country based on this belief. Most people in this country share that belief. Some believe our creator was god, some believe our creator was nature. It still means we have these rights because we were created as men (and women too). It is too bad you feel that our rights, and the exercise thereof, are out of control.

And please cite all the numerous threads in which people here talk about "striking down infidels". I don't recall any, much less it being a trend.

I don't think iceman is a troll, though. He appears to have an appreciation of the 2nd amendment from what I have seen. He likes to make fun of people whom he does not agree with, which is childish, but whatever. It does not bother me.
 
This is the funniest damn thing I have read on this site in a while. We carry guns because a political party made us afraid? How is that? The movement to allow concealed carry really took off in the mid 90's, before a Bush White House was a glimmer in anyone's eye. The only fear being spread was that ignorance still being spread by anti's that allowing private ownership/carry of guns will lead to disaster. What exactly led you to this conclusion about gun owners/carriers being afraid? Did you read it on the Huffington Post?

People believe our rights come from our creator because our founders formed the country based on this belief. Most people in this country share that belief. Some believe our creator was god, some believe our creator was nature. It still means we have these rights because we were created as men (and women too). It is too bad you feel that our rights, and the exercise thereof, are out of control.

And please cite all the numerous threads in which people here talk about "striking down infidels". I don't recall any, much less it being a trend.

I don't think iceman is a troll, though. He appears to have an appreciation of the 2nd amendment from what I have seen. He likes to make fun of people whom he does not agree with, which is childish, but whatever. It does not bother me.


I don't believe our rights are out of control. You miss the point. Those who exercise the rights are out of control.

That emboldened text does not make any sense at all. The rights that the framer's of the Constitution implemented have nothing to do with religion, hence the separation of CHURCH AND STATE. No one believes that the Bill of Rights is God given, unless you have been brain-washed by evangelism; which the majority of you seem to be.
 
Not unless you are trying to justify your trolling. Trolls are troublemakers. The symbolism goes back to the dark ages, applied to modern web forums. What's trouble for some people is not getting their way or having their viewpoints blindly accepted.

Get over yourself. Or troll. Or do whatever. But I'm not buying it. Tough.

Troll on. Troll off. Suit yourself. :pleasantry:

You are a very self aware and well adjusted troll.

Troll on. Troll off. Suit yourself. :pleasantry:
 
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