A question of choosing which grain bullet to load

[gunsandgardens]

I use a 140gr Solid copper barnes bullet in my G23. Why? The velocity gain gives you a very good muzzle energy, which gives the bullet the chance to fully expand and incompacitate the attacker. The barnes bullet also almost always has 100% weight retention after expansion, as do most self defense bullets these days. The use of FMJ bullets for self defense is a very bad Idea. Good luck in your quest for defensive ammo, there is SO much to learn!

Agreed! Take a look at it this way.... Grain = weight. The heavier the bullet the slower it travels. The slower it travels, the less expansion it's going to have. A 180 grain fmj is going to go straight through your target with little if not no expansion and strike whatever is behind it. Not a good idea. A light weight jhp will travel fast and start to expand on impact and cause severe damage. Not to mention, it will have less recoil than a heavyweight and fmj giving you a better chance of putting multiple shots on point. I carry federal premium 135 grain hydra-shok in my M&P40. Good hollow points are waaaaay more expensive than fmj's but that's why they are considered target rounds. When it comes to your life though..... should price matter?

 

[BC1]

O.S.S.R. (One Stop Shot Ratio)

Bullet weight X .16 = X
FPS velocity X .04 = Y
(Expansion in inches X 72) - 34 = Z

X + Y + Z = Oone Shot Stop ratio (percent)


Here's an example using 9mm with 147gr., traveling at 1000fps expanding to .6"

147 X .16 = 23.52
1000 X .04 = 40.00
(.6" expansion X 72) - 34 = 9.20

23.52 + 40 + 9.20 = 72.72%


This formula would suggest that one shot from this particular round has stopped a goblin 72% of the time. The OSSR formula was created based on over 30,000 police shootings where the bullet was recovered and the weight, speed, caliber, expansion were known. It assumes some averages/standards which are very important to remember. The average goblin was 165 pounds, the shot fired at an average of ten feet with the goblin wearing a single cotton shirt. Only data from COM hits was considered. The formula should not be used a predictor of how a certain round will function, but rather how the round performed in this limited scope. The data did not consider things like drug use, which may affect how quickly a perp is downed. DO NOT USE THIS FORMULA AS A PREDICTOR OF ROUND PERFORMANCE. Use it only as a guide to how the round performed in documented shootings,using specific averages and where recovery data was known.

What's interesting and most helpful about running data through the forumla is that you can compare rounds. For example a smaller faster round will rate very close to a slower heavier round with more expansion. You can find expansion data for many rounds based on ballistic gel testing at --> Tactical Briefs, August 2002.

If the goblin is 200 pounds, with solid pectoral muscles, is wearing a shirt, sweater and leather jacket, it's obvious that 72% is unrealistic. Thus a second or third shot is probably required. By the same standard, a skinny 110 pund man wearing a wife-beater will probably be stopped more than 72% of the time.

 

[NotTwoShure]

So I'm a young guy just starting out and I recently purchased a S&W Sigma 40VE. This is my only hand gun for now and I'm wondering what grain ammo I should use for personal protection. What is the rule of thumb (if any) on heavier or lighter grains?

I've been sticking with 165 grain for practice, as was recommended by my local fun store (it's the cheapest) but should I go with a heavier grain for protection? Does it really matter?

I'd like to hear what other members are loading their .40's with and why. Please redirect me if there is an answer in another thread. Thanks.

180 grain JHP. Rem, Fed, Win all great, I like the Golden Saber.

 

[Tea Man]

Go with 155-165 grain JHP bullets. They're better than 180 grain JHP bullets. Higher velocity and more energy. More damage to BGs.

EDIT: My Sigma 9mm is loaded with Win PDX1 124 +P BJHPs and my Sig P250 40sw has Win PDX1 165 BJHPs.

 

[kerb]

So I'm a young guy just starting out and I recently purchased a S&W Sigma 40VE. This is my only hand gun for now and I'm wondering what grain ammo I should use for personal protection. What is the rule of thumb (if any) on heavier or lighter grains?

I've been sticking with 165 grain for practice, as was recommended by my local fun store (it's the cheapest) but should I go with a heavier grain for protection? Does it really matter?

I'd like to hear what other members are loading their .40's with and why. Please redirect me if there is an answer in another thread. Thanks.

You may want to go check out tnoutdoors9 on youtube. He videos tests of various types of ammo using ballistic gel. Very informative.

TNOUTDOORS9 Guns and Ammo Reviews - YouTube

 

[Numenor]

Go with 155-165 grain JHP bullets. They're better than 180 grain JHP bullets. Higher velocity and more energy. More damage to BGs.

EDIT: My Sigma 9mm is loaded with Win PDX1 124 +P BJHPs and my Sig P250 40sw has Win PDX1 165 BJHPs.

And also more potential to do a through and through along with higher recoil. 180 grain is better. =P

 

[kerb]

Agreed! Take a look at it this way.... Grain = weight. The heavier the bullet the slower it travels. The slower it travels, the less expansion it's going to have. A 180 grain fmj is going to go straight through your target with little if not no expansion and strike whatever is behind it. Not a good idea. A light weight jhp will travel fast and start to expand on impact and cause severe damage. Not to mention, it will have less recoil than a heavyweight and fmj giving you a better chance of putting multiple shots on point. I carry federal premium 135 grain hydra-shok in my M&P40. Good hollow points are waaaaay more expensive than fmj's but that's why they are considered target rounds. When it comes to your life though..... should price matter?

You may want to check out the ammo tests linked in the post I made just before this one.
.45 230gr jhp at ~900fps both outpenetrated (by around 3 inches) and created a bigger wound tract than .40 165gr jhp at 1150fps. I guess it's that whole kinetic energy thing working in it's favor.

Your reasoning is.. well.. reasonable (makes sense, even) but doesn't seem to play out in practice.

You'll find by watching the ammo test videos at the link that hollowpoints are not all the same. Some don't expand worth a hoot.

My example was different calibers (I've been watching the .45 vids mostly, 'cause that's what I carry) but I think you will find that even within the same caliber a heavier bullet doesn't necessarily equate to less muzzle velocity (powder charge has a lot to so with that too).

It was an eye opener for me, maybe it will be for you too.


Respectfully,
kerb

 

[Tea Man]

I have a box of Fed 40sw 135 grain HST HPs (XM40HA). It's the ammo that the Border Patrol ordered and rejected. It was made to expand rapidly but will lack sufficient penetrations. They're available at Walmart. I'm thinking what wound cavities these bullets will make.

Link Removed

 

[kerb]

I have a box of Fed 40sw 135 grain HST HPs (XM40HA). It's the ammo that the Border Patrol ordered and rejected. It was made to expand rapidly but will lack sufficient penetrations. They're available at Walmart. I'm thinking what wound cavities these bullets will make.

Link Removed

Is this them? I thnk so =p

 

[gunsandgardens]

Agreed! Take a look at it this way.... Grain = weight. The heavier the bullet the slower it travels. The slower it travels, the less expansion it's going to have. A 180 grain fmj is going to go straight through your target with little if not no expansion and strike whatever is behind it. Not a good idea. A light weight jhp will travel fast and start to expand on impact and cause severe damage. Not to mention, it will have less recoil than a heavyweight and fmj giving you a better chance of putting multiple shots on point. I carry federal premium 135 grain hydra-shok in my M&P40. Good hollow points are waaaaay more expensive than fmj's but that's why they are considered target rounds. When it comes to your life though..... should price matter?

You may want to check out the ammo tests linked in the post I made just before this one.
.45 230gr jhp at ~900fps both outpenetrated (by around 3 inches) and created a bigger wound tract than .40 165gr jhp at 1150fps. I guess it's that whole kinetic energy thing working in it's favor.

Your reasoning is.. well.. reasonable (makes sense, even) but doesn't seem to play out in practice.

You'll find by watching the ammo test videos at the link that hollowpoints are not all the same. Some don't expand worth a hoot.

My example was different calibers (I've been watching the .45 vids mostly, 'cause that's what I carry) but I think you will find that even within the same caliber a heavier bullet doesn't necessarily equate to less muzzle velocity (powder charge has a lot to so with that too).

It was an eye opener for me, maybe it will be for you too.


Respectfully,
kerb

Right on. Thanks kerb... I'll check it out.

 

[Stan45]

So the 135 gr bullets were only penetrating 10.5 inches.
These bullets will get you killed. Better go with a heavier weight bullet.

 

[Tea Man]

So the 135 gr bullets were only penetrating 10.5 inches.
These bullets will get you killed. Better go with a heavier weight bullet.

That's why I only have one box. :laugh:

I shot 30 of 'em at the range. Kept 20 for giggles.

 

[e_v_h]

So for fun I grabbed a box of hornady ZOMBIE MAX ammo, anyone have any experience with these yet? 165 grain jhp was all they had at my shop, I couldn't resist.