9mm won't protect you?


firelooker

firelooker
Interesting! Anyway to reduce that "snap"? I shoot a ruger p345 so I don't get any snap just solid recoil. Same for my Taurus tracker in 44 mag, it's ported to reduce recoil still 25 rds is enough at at one sitting to make you tired.
 

S&W645

NRA Life Member
12ga 1.25oz slugs beats all. :biggrin: As for the 9mm vs .45 debate, meth heads have been shot any number of times by 9mm and not gone down until 18 or more rounds have been fired. There never has been that kind of article on a .45. And the WV State Police are getting S&W 4566 handguns. If you check LAE groups, all major groups that involve hostage or Special Response teams and military SOP all have .45 in their use. Not that I want to get hit by any round but I carry a full size 1911 .45 all day with either 185 gr FTP or 230 gr +P JHP rounds. A gun isn't supposed to be comfortable, it is to give comfort when needed. Any gun available is better than none at all. Just because the 9mm rounds have been improved does not mean that the other sizes haven't also. Check Hornady Critical Defense for other than bone stock ammo results. Or Federal, or Winchester for that fact. All ammo has improved over the years.
 

Cotillion

New member
Yeah that's all well and good and yes a 45 would be optimal, however nobody wants to carry a gallon of milk in their waistband! I could turn that story around and say a Meth head that took 18 rounds from a 9mm could just as easily grab that 45 straight from your hand. I think it breaks down like this, having a gun isn't the end all gonna save you tool, however it ups your chances of survival. Everything after that depends on your will, physical ability, who your up against and so on. A smaller, weaker man might feel more comfortable with a 45 and be able to take that Meth head down, yet maybe I could do the same thing with a 22lr simply because I'm bigger and was able to wrestle him into a position that made my shot count, I.e neck or head
 

Rocketgeezer

New member
I don't how many of you guys have shot them, but the 357 Sig is a viable option for a good carry gun, and I honestly think that the reason for it not being more common outside of Law Enforcement is the cost of the ammo, I just picked up a G-31C, very little recoil, about like my G-19, but judgeing by the sound it makes when it hits the steel plate, it sounds like a harder wack than the 40 or 45, and the noise this thing makes is god awful, at the range sounds like a 44 mag, very cool gun.......
 

tuts40

New member
To all the many, many, many attackers who's attack was stopped by a 9mm handgun, and who subsequently died, we need to wake them up and tell them they should not be dead.
 

firelooker

firelooker
Yeah that's all well and good and yes a 45 would be optimal, however nobody wants to carry a gallon of milk in their waistband! I could turn that story around and say a Meth head that took 18 rounds from a 9mm could just as easily grab that 45 straight from your hand. I think it breaks down like this, having a gun isn't the end all gonna save you tool, however it ups your chances of survival. Everything after that depends on your will, physical ability, who your up against and so on. A smaller, weaker man might feel more comfortable with a 45 and be able to take that Meth head down, yet maybe I could do the same thing with a 22lr simply because I'm bigger and was able to wrestle him into a position that made my shot count, I.e neck or head
There you go bringing physical size into the argument, I carry the .45 not because I'm a smaller man (6'1" 190lbs) but I don't want to have to fire 18 rounds to take my attacker down. Now if it weren't for the problem of over penetration I would carry my 44Mag. remember the reason John Browning invented the .45 ACP our soldiers were carrying .38's which happens to be the same as 9mm and their attackers weren't being stopped, the .45 ACP did the job.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
I can't believe we're still having this debate. Any caliber will get the job done as long as the person pulling the trigger knows what they're doing. Heck, I used to make fun of .380s until I got shot with one back in January of '09 and was left with a paralyzed arm for a year.
 

Valorius

New member
There is almost no difference in the performance of top 9mm, .357 sig, .40 and .45 loads.

There are charts and ballistics gel tests all over the net that confirm this.
 

sgtbill

New member
There you go bringing physical size into the argument, I carry the .45 not because I'm a smaller man (6'1" 190lbs) but I don't want to have to fire 18 rounds to take my attacker down. Now if it weren't for the problem of over penetration I would carry my 44Mag. remember the reason John Browning invented the .45 ACP our soldiers were carrying .38's which happens to be the same as 9mm and their attackers weren't being stopped, the .45 ACP did the job.

Sorry but that is so far from correct that I have to jump in here. The military was in fact carrying the .38 short. Saying just .38's is very misleading and incorrect. As far as the .38's being the same as the 9 m.m.this is also incorrect as to size .355 compared to .357 weight 124 grain vs. 200 grain. The .45 was used so that the military could in fact penetrate the banana leaves and knock down the natives that they were fighting. The leaves were being worn as a primitive type of body armoure.
Bill
 

speelmanc

New member
S&w .38 special

I think the size of the bullet matters when you can't even hit your Target. I'd rather put a single .38 special into my assailant and drop him. You pump out 15-18 rnds into someone, your going to jail for murder. The court will eat you alive. You look like a maniac carrying 3 18rnd mags. I have perfected (2 in the chest, 1 in the head).
 

Providence Ranch

New member
sgtbill:235906 said:
There you go bringing physical size into the argument, I carry the .45 not because I'm a smaller man (6'1" 190lbs) but I don't want to have to fire 18 rounds to take my attacker down. Now if it weren't for the problem of over penetration I would carry my 44Mag. remember the reason John Browning invented the .45 ACP our soldiers were carrying .38's which happens to be the same as 9mm and their attackers weren't being stopped, the .45 ACP did the job.

Sorry but that is so far from correct that I have to jump in here. The military was in fact carrying the .38 short. Saying just .38's is very misleading and incorrect. As far as the .38's being the same as the 9 m.m.this is also incorrect as to size .355 compared to .357 weight 124 grain vs. 200 grain. The .45 was used so that the military could in fact penetrate the banana leaves and knock down the natives that they were fighting. The leaves were being worn as a primitive type of body armoure.
Bill

Where can I get myself some of that body armoire? Is that like combat cupboards? LOL. Sorry, couldn't resist.
 

Providence Ranch

New member
speelmanc:235925 said:
I think the size of the bullet matters when you can't even hit your Target. I'd rather put a single .38 special into my assailant and drop him. You pump out 15-18 rnds into someone, your going to jail for murder. The court will eat you alive. You look like a maniac carrying 3 18rnd mags. I have perfected (2 in the chest, 1 in the head).

Dude, if that's your standard response, you'll be going to jail too. Murder 1.

No problem with 2 in the chest. All handguns are ballistically deficient, anyway. The best personal defense handgun is a rifle! But I digress. Before you pop that last round into the computer, you'd better be able to articulate that your first warning (2 shots to the chest) failed to stop the threat.

Furthermore, do you STILL look like a maniac when the jury finds out that you WERE carrying 3 mags and 45 rounds of ammo, but you used only the 1 or 2 rounds that were absolutely necessary to stop the threat?

(here's a hint, sport: the answer is "no.")
 

Valorius

New member
A jury doesn't care how many rounds you're carrying. Or what kind.

Either the shoot was good, or it wasn't.
 

Firefighterchen

OC for Tactical Advantage
speelmanc:235925 said:
I think the size of the bullet matters when you can't even hit your Target. I'd rather put a single .38 special into my assailant and drop him. You pump out 15-18 rnds into someone, your going to jail for murder. The court will eat you alive. You look like a maniac carrying 3 18rnd mags. I have perfected (2 in the chest, 1 in the head).

I advise you to erase that last sentence. It completely ruins your reputation on so many levels. I also advise you to never say, think, or feel you have perfected anything, that is a terrible place to be when it comes to training.
 

robalan

New member
If you read the book Stopping Power it will give some great information on the 9mm and others. You can feel as safe with the 9mm as you would with any other.
 

Cotillion

New member
^^^^^^

Yeah have you shot a lot of people personally? And as for the guy who's "perfected 2 in the chest 1 in the head", that's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. You've perfected nothing for starters, and unless that guy you're pumping full of bullets did something sick and twisted like kill your family while you watched, you should stick with enough shots until neutralized, otherwise you shouldn't be carrying as nothing would separate you from a "bg"
 

S&W645

NRA Life Member
There is almost no difference in the performance of top 9mm, .357 sig, .40 and .45 loads.

There are charts and ballistics gel tests all over the net that confirm this.
I would suggest that you might want to grab a copy of Personal Defense 2011 from Shooting Times. Compare a Federal Hydra-Shok 230gr .45ACP with any 9mm Luger round they tested. Compare wound cavities. The only one that comes close is 9mm Speer Gold Dot 124gr. The only one in .45ACP that was below the 9mm group was a Federal 230gr FMJ. Otherwise, all .45ACP tested did better than all 9mm tested except the Speer. None beat the 230gr FMJ for penetration though. 31+" in 10% gel.
 

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