9MM VS 40 SW Caliber

Howdy Eidolon,

Eidolon said:

This statement is ridiculous. In a real fight (and I'm beginning to suspect you wouldn't know anything about that) your target isn't going to stand still and let you place your shots

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Actually I'm one of the few people on this forum that has been in a firefight before. Heck, if you go to the political section, most of the regular posters do not even own a gun.

It doesn't matter if they are standin' or runnin' you need to spread your shots out for a more traumatic effect.

Paul

P.S. I also see that with all your vast combat/SD/HD/LEO shooting experience you have obviously missed my joke.

Stengun said:

Actually I'm one of the few people on this forum that has been in a firefight before.

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Did you know I have a JD from Harvard Law and a DD from Wheaton College.

See how easy it is to do that on the interwebs ?

Howdy,

Eidolon said:

Did you know I have a JD from Harvard Law and a DD from Wheaton College.

See how easy it is to do that on the interwebs ?

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Congrats! But it doesn't mean you know anything about guns, firefights, shootin' people etc.

Paul

Stengun said:

Howdy,



Congrats! But it doesn't mean you know anything about guns, firefights, shootin' people etc.

Paul

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Man, don't you know I taught Sgt. Rock everything he knows?

I believe I heard the FBI have switched back to 9mm.

agree. Exactly what I carry and reload.

FBI switched back to 9mm for two reasons: 9mm has less recoil and the ammo is now much improved thus permitting more accurate repeat shots with more deadly results. However, the .40 is still more effective even with increased recoil, if you diligently train with it and use superior ammo such as 180gr Speer Gold Dot.


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Stephen Wood said:

However, the .40 is still more effective even with increased recoil, if you diligently train with it and use superior ammo such as 180gr Speer Gold Dot.

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Can you source your claim please?

Stephen Wood said:

FBI switched back to 9mm for two reasons: 9mm has less recoil and the ammo is now much improved thus permitting more accurate repeat shots with more deadly results. However, the .40 is still more effective even with increased recoil, if you diligently train with it and use superior ammo such as 180gr Speer Gold Dot.

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I wouldn't use "superior" in conjunction with any service caliber handgun ammunition. As for why the FBI switched to 9mm, how about citing the Link Removed, specifically:

• Caliber debates have existed in law enforcement for decades
• Most of what is “common knowledge” with ammunition and its effects on the human target are rooted in myth and folklore
• Projectiles are what ultimately wound our adversaries and the projectile needs to be the basis for the discussion on what “caliber” is best
• In all the major law enforcement calibers there exist projectiles which have a high likelihood of failing LEO’s in a shooting incident and there are projectiles which have a high ting incident likelihood of succeeding for LEO’s in a shooting incident
• Handgun stopping power is simply a myth
• The single most important factor in effectively wounding a human target is to have penetration to a scientifically valid depth (FBI uses 12” – 18”)
• LEO’s miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident
• Contemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles (emphasis on the 9mm Luger offerings)
• 9mm Luger now offers projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI
• 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons)
• The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)
• There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto
• Given contemporary bullet construction, LEO's can field (with proper bullet selection) 9mm Lugers with all of the terminal performance potential of any other law enforcement pistol caliber with none of the disadvantages present with the "larger" calibers

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The FBI basically says that your "superior" statement is not only false, but a plain myth, not supported by real world data. .40 S&W is 1mm larger in diameter and 2mm larger in expanded diameter, if it expands. That's all.

PS: I sometimes carry hot 10mm loads, so don't tell me about how "superior" your 10mm short and weak is.

They are comparable. However, for CC, the small 9mm's are much easier to conceal. ie" Kahr PM9

CharlesMorrison said:

You really need to read the history of the creation of the caliber that became the .40 S&W.
If you seriously think it was created as a "gimmick", you have no idea about the round, nor what you are talking about.


Sent from behind enemy lines.

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^^^Excellent rejoinder^^^

JBrown said:

I believe I heard the FBI have switched back to 9mm.

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Not completely true. The FBI's issue handgun apparently will be chambered for 9MM; however, agents can carry handguns & cartridges from an approved list.

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yi5hedr3 said:

They are comparable. However, for CC, the small 9mm's are much easier to conceal. ie" Kahr PM9

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You know...except for that whole Kahr PM9 and PM40 being exactly the same size. And that whole Kahr CM9 and CM40 being exactly the same size. Oh yeah...and that whole Smith & Wesson Shield 9 and 40 being exactly the same size. That pesky Springfield Armory XDs 9 and XDs 40 being exactly the same size.

Upsize it a bit....that whole Glock 19 in 9mm and Glock 23 in 40 being exactly the same size. Damn, that Glock 17 in 9mm and the Glock 22 being exactly the same size.

Funny thing...sad thing...ironic thing...pathetic thing...functionally it doesn't make even a tiny bit of difference whether 97% of the gun carrying public carries a Beretta Jetfire .22 short or a Desert Eagle 50AE, they're not going to do something silly like actually shoot or train with their gun, no matter what they carry. Whatever gun they are carrying is a prophylactic...it's just something to make them feel better knowing they have it.

The caliber debate is moot. With modern defensive ammunition and bullet technology there isn't a whisp of a functional difference between the "Big Five" defensive calibers when loaded with premium defensive ammunition. The .38, 9mm, 40, 45, and 357 are all magnificent choices (as bad as ANY handgun caliber truly is)...the practical/mechanical/physiological ability of a given round to stop a violent attack is lost as soon as the goober on the trigger starts issuing rounds everywhere but into the high center mass or central nervous system of an attacker.