Self Defense in home burglary

[Reba]

I agree, I was just curious, bc say they have something valuable and decided to make a run for it? Can you not protect your property as much as your life?

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Unless that "something valuable" was a family member, I would say no.

 

[thomas0792]

If the homeowner could keep them down at a distance until the police arrive, that's OK. Warning shot though? No.


Being a smallish woman, 66 years old with Parkinson's Disease, I'm going to distance myself from any intruders as much as possible. If cornered, I'd shoot to stop the threat. If I could escape without firing, all the better. It's not my responsibility to "hold" them.


I'm not shooting anyone fleeing or physically taking them on, so they get away. As long as I and my loved ones are safe, so what?

Anyway, that's just me.

So what about shooting them right away? As soon as the threat is spotted in your home. Because this is the option that would be considered justifiable homicide considering you don't know if the people in your home are there to harm you or just take your stuff? Would you coward in a corner with your gun while they take your things, counting on you not to shoot them unless they attack you?

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[NavyLCDR]

A stupid stunt? It was simple question. Am I better off shooting a person right away who has broken into my home, or would it be possible to try and hold them under citizens arrest without relinquishing the right to use my firearm. I knew the answer to my own question, I was curious what others might do or think, excluding you of course.

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Shooting them right away would certainly save the taxpayers a bunch of money.

 

[thomas0792]

Shooting them right away would certainly save the taxpayers a bunch of money.

I concur.

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[Reba]

So what about shooting them right away? As soon as the threat is spotted in your home. Because this is the option that would be considered justifiable homicide considering you don't know if the people in your home are there to harm you or just take your stuff?

Your scenario has too many variables for a definitive answer. It doesn't address the layout of the scene and locations of all the players. For example, waking up in one's bedroom to a home invader standing in the hallway is not the same as driving up to one's home and seeing someone thru the window going thru your stuff inside.

Would you coward in a corner with your gun while they take your things, counting on you not to shoot them unless they attack you?

Do you mean "cower?"

It depends on which direction they're headed. If they're going out the door, adios. If I can safely exit my house, I'll do that. If I feel threatened, that's another matter. No, I'm not going to wait until they actually lay hands on me.

 

[Reba]

Shooting them right away would certainly save the taxpayers a bunch of money.

That wouldn't be my first priority.

 

[thomas0792]

Your scenario has too many variables for a definitive answer. It doesn't address the layout of the scene and locations of all the players. For example, waking up in one's bedroom to a home invader standing in the hallway is not the same as driving up to one's home and seeing someone thru the window going thru your stuff inside.


Do you mean "cower?"

It depends on which direction they're headed. If they're going out the door, adios. If I can safely exit my house, I'll do that. If I feel threatened, that's another matter. No, I'm not going to wait until they actually lay hands on me.

Not really that many variables. It's pretty realistic. You wake up to unusual noises in the main area of your home, proceed into area, armed, and come upon two burglars in your home.

Do you?

A: point and shoot

B: Tell them to get on the ground, and wait for poilce.

A ends very quickly, you either miss and they get away or you kill them.

B however can go a few ways.

B1 they comply.

B2 they make an escape, with valuables.

Do you

A shoot them as they escape

B let them go?

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[thomas0792]

Your scenario has too many variables for a definitive answer. It doesn't address the layout of the scene and locations of all the players. For example, waking up in one's bedroom to a home invader standing in the hallway is not the same as driving up to one's home and seeing someone thru the window going thru your stuff inside.


Do you mean "cower?"

It depends on which direction they're headed. If they're going out the door, adios. If I can safely exit my house, I'll do that. If I feel threatened, that's another matter. No, I'm not going to wait until they actually lay hands on me.

And yes I did mean cower, thank you. I knew that was wrong but didn't care to find the right word.

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[Bikenut]

Shooting someone is the last, last, last, option regardless of the scenario/situation. Shooting to save a life or to prevent great bodily harm is justifiable. Shooting to save the TV is going to be questionable. Shooting so someone doesn't manage to get away with your TV is going to cause many expensive problems and might involve jail time.

Everyone gets to make the shoot/don't shoot decision for themselves but unless a burglar is a threat to my, or a loved one's, life or are in danger of bodily harm the burglar can have the TV. After all ... the stores sell TV's everyday.

 

[Reba]

Not really that many variables. It's pretty realistic. You wake up to unusual noises in the main area of your home, proceed into area, armed, and come upon two burglars in your home.

Do you?

A: point and shoot

B: Tell them to get on the ground, and wait for poilce.

A ends very quickly, you either miss and they get away or you kill them.

B however can go a few ways.

B1 they comply.

B2 they make an escape, with valuables.

Do you

A shoot them as they escape

B let them go?

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I posted what I would do.

Seems to be too much emphasis on "valuables."

 

[bofh]

Your OP did not exclude me. I gave you an answer, you just didn't liked it because it was contrary to your preconceived idea of getting in close physical contact with a burglar.

Lol you think I want to be fighting with a burglar? Why do I even own guns then? You are special.

I forgot to answer that one. From your OP:

This is a piece on a man who held his invaders at gunpoint for police to arrive. Just a bunch of kids in this one, but say this happened to one of us, by let's assume an average size male of plenty age, and we decided we didn't really want to kill anyone but wanted to hold them for the cops to arrive. And there are two invaders. If they tried to escape, could you gun them down? Probably not right? So either physically take them on and restrain them for a citizens arrest or let them go right? What do you think?

If you had any training whatsoever, you would know that physically taking on and restraining a potentially armed person you hold at gunpoint, such as by putting on handcuffs, zip ties or duct tape, is a bad idea if you have no backup. Going back to my post #2, it is pretty much the stupidest I ever heard in this context. You may not want to be fighting with a burglar, but you likely will end up doing so, because you put yourself in that dangerous position.

If you end up holding a burglar at gun point, the best way is to have the burglar with his hands above his head, ether standing, kneeling or laying down on the stomach. Clear communication from you should point out that if the burglar's arms go below his head, the burglar will be shot and likely die. Everything else what you are suggesting is outright futile and dangerous.

Be prepared to point your gun at the burglar for 5-15 minutes, until law enforcement arrives. You will be told to drop your gun by law enforcement, which you should do with no hesitation and without turning your shoulders or arms.

 

[lblainh]

If you shot them, you'd probably go to jail, depending on your county. This happened to me a few years ago and I decided not to use deadly force since I was not directly threatened.


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[Reba]

I was once sitting at my kitchen table at the back of the house when I saw a guy jump my 6-ft. privacy fence and approach the sliding glass door. I simply got up, ran to my front door and exited the house. I ran across my front yard to the street where I met up with some neighbors. They had already called the police, who were on the way. It turned out that the guy was the Marine boyfriend of that neighbor who had suddenly gone crazy. The police came, they apprehended the guy, and took him away. I found out later that someone had slipped something into his drink at the bar that made him go whacko. He got treated and was OK afterward.

Yes, I probably could have gotten away with a legal self defense shooting if I had "stood my ground" as he continued to approach me in a threatening manner. But why not just exit the scene as I did? It turned out much better my way.

 

[thomas0792]

I was once sitting at my kitchen table at the back of the house when I saw a guy jump my 6-ft. privacy fence and approach the sliding glass door. I simply got up, ran to my front door and exited the house. I ran across my front yard to the street where I met up with some neighbors. They had already called the police, who were on the way. It turned out that the guy was the Marine boyfriend of that neighbor who had suddenly gone crazy. The police came, they apprehended the guy, and took him away. I found out later that someone had slipped something into his drink at the bar that made him go whacko. He got treated and was OK afterward.

Yes, I probably could have gotten away with a legal self defense shooting if I had "stood my ground" as he continued to approach me in a threatening manner. But why not just exit the scene as I did? It turned out much better my way.

That's a good example. You're right, I'm glad you didn't have to shoot him. But let's say this guy was here to rob your home, which let's be honest that's mostly likely what someone would be doing in your home. Most criminals aren't looking for a fight, they just want your money. Why wouldn't I emphasize valuables? That's almost the only reason we would come in contact with a criminal in our homes, not saying there aren't other reason such as rape or cold blooded murder, but not so often. Maybe you don't care about the things you've worked hard for enough to protect them with a firearm but I do. I most likely would shoot anyone right away who was in my home unannounced and especially in the middle of the night. As far as coming across the yard, if they aren't armed, I would ask them to leave, call the cops, and stand guard for them to get too close to my home, doors, windows, etc.

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[thomas0792]

I forgot to answer that one. From your OP:



If you had any training whatsoever, you would know that physically taking on and restraining a potentially armed person you hold at gunpoint, such as by putting on handcuffs, zip ties or duct tape, is a bad idea if you have no backup. Going back to my post #2, it is pretty much the stupidest I ever heard in this context. You may not want to be fighting with a burglar, but you likely will end up doing so, because you put yourself in that dangerous position.

If you end up holding a burglar at gun point, the best way is to have the burglar with his hands above his head, ether standing, kneeling or laying down on the stomach. Clear communication from you should point out that if the burglar's arms go below his head, the burglar will be shot and likely die. Everything else what you are suggesting is outright futile and dangerous.

Be prepared to point your gun at the burglar for 5-15 minutes, until law enforcement arrives. You will be told to drop your gun by law enforcement, which you should do with no hesitation and without turning your shoulders or arms.

Are you still here?

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[thomas0792]

If you shot them, you'd probably go to jail, depending on your county. This happened to me a few years ago and I decided not to use deadly force since I was not directly threatened.


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You are probably right, though I don't agree. I should be able to protect my property too, even after holding them at gunpoint.

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[bofh]

Are you still here?

I certainly don't want to miss this train wreck of a thread you are having here.

You still seem to be hellbent on shooting a thief, not understanding the legal implications that follow. George Zimmerman has a $2.5 million debt in legal fees, and he was found not guilty. Do you have anything of value in your home that would justify the risk of running up a multi-million Dollar debt and getting crucified in the media?

Anyway, I will be waiting for you posting a GoFundMe contribution request to your legal funds, such as this one: My friend is being held for murder after defending his home. You may note that I posted the same video in that thread. Stupid is as stupid does. You can take the advice of a lawyer now or later. The advice later will be regarding a plea bargain.

 

[thomas0792]

I certainly don't want to miss this train wreck of a thread you are having here.

You still seem to be hellbent on shooting a thief, not understanding the legal implications that follow. George Zimmerman has a $2.5 million debt in legal fees, and he was found not guilty. Do you have anything of value in your home that would justify the risk of running up a multi-million Dollar debt and getting crucified in the media?

Anyway, I will be waiting for you posting a GoFundMe contribution request to your legal funds, such as this one: My friend is being held for murder after defending his home. You may note that I posted the same video in that thread. Stupid is as stupid does. You can take the advice of a lawyer now or later. The advice later will be regarding a plea bargain.

Uh huh

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[SmiddySW]

Great question!

This is a piece on a man who held his invaders at gunpoint for police to arrive. Just a bunch of kids in this one, but say this happened to one of us, by let's assume an average size male of plenty age, and we decided we didn't really want to kill anyone but wanted to hold them for the cops to arrive. And there are two invaders. If they tried to escape, could you gun them down? Probably not right? So either physically take them on and restrain them for a citizens arrest or let them go right? What do you think?

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This is too situation dependent to specify one line of action. It also depends on the state laws, whether there's a castle doctrine or not.

For an intruder being held trying to escape, shooting them for doing so wouldn't mesh with laws I'd not think. This is why I go back to my personal rule: I don't draw my gun if I'm not legal to fire it.

This is a good question to pose and we all should consider the potential for it to happen in our own homes and how we would respond vs maybe how we should respond. Wayyy too many things that can change during such a situation to ponder every last possibility. If someone is brazen enough to break in a home, they're going to have a different attitude about what they're willing to do to "get away with it." If they didn't come in with the sole intent to kill, trying to hold them at gunpoint may change their mind about being wiling to kill and cause them to behave differently, introducing yet more things that the homeowner has to judge "on the fly" when deciding how much force is necessary and legal.

Thanks for the great question in this post! It'll keep my brain's hard drive whirring at least the rest of the day

 

[mikestone967]

Actually. I dread hearing from your arrogant, egotistical ass every time I post to this forum. And I wouldn't need moral justification if I shot them right away so your point is moot.

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