When To Pull and or Shoot
- Thread starter maat
- Start date
bofh
Banned
When spraying someone from across the car, you would be committing an assault to protect your property from damage. Did you check with your state's laws if this would be legal?
Again, kicking someone in the head is aggravated assault and will land you in jail if your only justification is that you protected your property. The other person would have a right to self defense and could legally kill you. Just food for thoughts.
About the gel vs. foam argument, here is the manufacturer's advice:
I am not sure why you had to "order" spray, but both variants are available at many stores.
I highly advise against carrying a can with the twist tab (like the one you apparently purchased) in a pant pocket. The tab can twist from the "safe" to the "fire" position on its own in the pant pocket. Now, you just need to apply some pressure to the tab and it starts spraying. I accidentally activated my Sabre Red Pepper Spray in my jeans pocket pants when sitting down, twice, at two different instances. Call it a negligent discharge, if you will. After that, I moved to the Sabre Red Pepper Gel with the safer flip-top design.
Initially always buy two, one for carrying and one for practice. If you never practiced with it, how do you expect to defend yourself with it?
Are you a robot that does not sense sarcasm?
No, I'm not going to worry what big brother thinks when a jackass is bashing my windshield with a pipe. I'll shoot him with pepper spray to,attempt to stop the attack.
bofh
Banned
As I said it numerous times before, you clearly have no clue about the law. You don't have to worry about "big brother", what ever that even means in this case. You certainly have to worry about the jury of your peers that will be judging your actions.
HKS
New member
A pipe is a deadly weapon and with it an opponent could kill you.
That's NOT the time to use a less-lethal weapon.
That's when you should shoot to kill.
And if there were any doubt in my mind in the circumstances, I would at least put one bullet into the right shoulder and another bullet into the left shoulder, and even a few more, until he/she dropped the pipe.
bofh
Banned
If and only if the opponent is within reach with that pipe. Think about the Tueller Drill as an example for what that could mean.
I agree with that in any case.
We shoot to stop the attack. Killing the attacker may be a side effect. If you miss and the attack stops, then you can't legally "kill" the guy.
Absolute and complete nonsense from a self defense and medical perspective. This poster watches way too much TV. There is not a single vital organ in the shoulder! In contrast to the entire body, the shoulder is a small target to hit under stress.
2 rapid shots to the center of mass, what ever that means in terms of visible mass. When that doesn't stop the attack, 1 shot to the head. Repeat if that fails, such as due to misses.
seagullplayer
New member
IMO comments on this thread really brings home how important jury selection is should you ever have to sit before one!
In the second video of the old man with the cane on the bus. I knew an old guy that carried a crow-bar as a cane.
He faced down three guys that tried to mug him one night. They all ended up in the hospital, but he was the first one out by more than a week.
I would have helped out the bus driver, but seeing whats on the video, I wouldn't have used a firearm.
In the second video of the old man with the cane on the bus. I knew an old guy that carried a crow-bar as a cane.
He faced down three guys that tried to mug him one night. They all ended up in the hospital, but he was the first one out by more than a week.
I would have helped out the bus driver, but seeing whats on the video, I wouldn't have used a firearm.
HKS
New member
It behooves everyone to try and de-escalate a situation first before using their firearm, if possible, if it involves themselves.
The first step is stop talking and let the other person vent.
The next step is finish your drink and leave, or ask for your food to go in a box.
I have seen others get into it with each other at bars, and I have never interfered. But they did not start fighting they were just verbally abusing each other.
My feeling is that it is not wise to get involved, because if you have your firearm with you, then your first duty is to protect that firearm so that it does not fall into the wrong hands. If you get involved you are risking that happening to your firearm.
seagullplayer
New member
You have the right idea. But in the bus situation it was too far gone for talking.
Once he drug the bus driver out of the seat, it became something different.
I wouldn't interfere with two drunks in a bar, they are mutual participants.
But when one person is clearly the victim such as the bus driver, I couldn't sleep at night if I thought I could help and didn't.
Apparently the old dude with the cane thought the same way.
This is the point of the thread. Do I guard the gun and not help or do I do what I believe to be right and step in?
Maybe having the gun doesn't matter, yet there is always the worse case it falls out or is grabbed.
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
Right or wrong, in any situation, all depends on how much money you are prepared to spend on a good attorney if need be for your choice to defend anyone other than your immediate family.
bofh
Banned
Maybe getting some training instead of discussing the theoretical what ifs on the Internet would be a good idea? Such basic questions are answered there, not really here. Here, you will get a lot of "expert" opinions from people that mostly have zero training.
So, you are worried that your gun falls out. If this is really the case, then you have the wrong holster or carry method. Also, you have to guard your firearm, like certain important body parts, no matter what you do.
Neither of these issues has anything to do with whether or not getting involved in the bus situation. If you are the target of an attack, then your gun better not fall out of its holster and you better protect your gun and other body parts. Get some training to learn how to do that!
HKS
New member
1 - you guard your own life.
2 - you guard your family.
3 - you guard friends that you specifically know and love (assuming that you are willing to risk dying for them and leaving your family fatherless in the wake).
4 - you guard the gun.
5 - you observe and report all other situations and try not to get involved unless the perp sees you calling on your cell phone and comes at you, and then in that case see 1, 2, 3, and 4 above.
This is what Massad Ayoob taught us in his concealed carry videos out of New Jersey.
HKS
New member
Note that in the case of someone coming at you, that is a felony physical assault.
You should not let anybody on this Earth get close enough in the first place to hit stab or grab you.
If someone closes the gap on you then you should maintain your interval just like Bruce Lee (RIP) said and retreat and draw your weapon and get ready to shoot while you maintain your interval.
Whether you shoot them or not depends on whether or not they stop in their tracks.
If they stop in their tracks then the felony assault has ended and you have no longer a cause to shoot -- the threat has stopped.
In that case where they have stopped you should keep retreating -- you want a nice BIG interval -- big enough so that if THEY draw a weapon they cannot reach you with it. Most people are really crappy shots. Distance is your savior. At the same time you should be practicing with your pistol so that you can hit targets from 25 to 50 yards.
If they draw a pistol and they are 25 to 50 yards away from you, you should then be able to hit them without them hitting you, if you have practiced.
When you go to the indoor range every month, you need to practice all kinds of shots from 2 yards away to 50 yards away. And one handed as well as 2 handed. And right handed as well as left handed both ways - one handed and 2 handed.
And you need to stay physically fit and exercise and lift weights and practice punching and kicking on a heavy bag in case they DO get close enough to you before you can draw your pistol so that in this case where you fokked up by NOT maintaining your interval like Bruce Lee said, so that you can fight with your hands, feet, and fists to PROTECT THE GUN.
It helps to have a fixed blade or jack knive on your belt or in your pocket for fights like that. Gives you a big advantage in a fist fight to have a knife.
So it is a myth never to bring a knife to a gunfight. You might need the knife.
Never go anywhere without a knife. My dad taught me that early-on right with not playing with fire or in traffic.
You should not let anybody on this Earth get close enough in the first place to hit stab or grab you.
If someone closes the gap on you then you should maintain your interval just like Bruce Lee (RIP) said and retreat and draw your weapon and get ready to shoot while you maintain your interval.
Whether you shoot them or not depends on whether or not they stop in their tracks.
If they stop in their tracks then the felony assault has ended and you have no longer a cause to shoot -- the threat has stopped.
In that case where they have stopped you should keep retreating -- you want a nice BIG interval -- big enough so that if THEY draw a weapon they cannot reach you with it. Most people are really crappy shots. Distance is your savior. At the same time you should be practicing with your pistol so that you can hit targets from 25 to 50 yards.
If they draw a pistol and they are 25 to 50 yards away from you, you should then be able to hit them without them hitting you, if you have practiced.
When you go to the indoor range every month, you need to practice all kinds of shots from 2 yards away to 50 yards away. And one handed as well as 2 handed. And right handed as well as left handed both ways - one handed and 2 handed.
And you need to stay physically fit and exercise and lift weights and practice punching and kicking on a heavy bag in case they DO get close enough to you before you can draw your pistol so that in this case where you fokked up by NOT maintaining your interval like Bruce Lee said, so that you can fight with your hands, feet, and fists to PROTECT THE GUN.
It helps to have a fixed blade or jack knive on your belt or in your pocket for fights like that. Gives you a big advantage in a fist fight to have a knife.
So it is a myth never to bring a knife to a gunfight. You might need the knife.
Never go anywhere without a knife. My dad taught me that early-on right with not playing with fire or in traffic.
HKS
New member
Dead men tell no tales (lies).
HKS
New member
That's why you always need to look around first to be sure if there are witnesses or not.
Witnesses related to your assailant and going to lie -- his girlfriend etc.
Witnesses that you have been defending are going to tell the truth.
The crowd is going to break either way, for you or against you.
That's why it is important to retreat, keep your interval, shout to the assailant to "stop!", and give him/her plenty of chances to discontinue their assault on you -- even though people will argue naively that there is no duty to retreat in their state.
You need to make plenty of noise first so that others can hear you -- same as Zimmerman did when he killed Trayvon Martin.
It is never wise to shoot somebody at first reflex.
RJT CCW
New member
Depending upon your situation you may or may not have time to look around for witness. And quite frankly, if I am in fear of my life from someone presenting a deadly threat, I will do what ever is in my power to stop the threat (evade, escape, confront depending on the options). Looking for witnesses first is a great way to lose and not in your best interest. Looking for witnesses after the event (however it turned out) is the proper time and the correct procedure.
HKS
New member
You can look around for witnesses as you asses the treat level of the location in your situational awareness survey before anything actually develops. This is something everybody is supposed to do them second they step out of their house or car and before they enter anyplace.
For instance, in a biker bar, with lots of bikers and their friends, you would probably not stand a chance of getting a friendly witness there.
I guess you would simply have to shoot all of them.
New Threads
-
G19 AIWB carry: Is the Surefire X300U much more uncomfortable than the TLR-7A?
- Started by sigsag1
- Replies: 0
-
Recent TX Appeals Court declaration that ATF arm brace rule is unconstitutional
- Started by lw07
- Replies: 1
-
Hunter Constantine or Phlster Enigma, for running?
- Started by sigsag1
- Replies: 2
-
-
Members online
No members online now.