Hide Your Gun In Plain Sight

[Hatchetman]

There are people MUCH worse than anti-gunners, and I see at least 2 of them on this thread.... They THINK they are pro gun, or pro rights, but have demonstrated with their words they are neither.... they are "pro rights BUT only in the way I wish them to be exercised" ... Talk about perfect idiots for the left and liberals to use as examples to further infringe on our rights....

 

[Blueshell]

"Shall not be infringed" means exactly what it says.... the government shall not institute any limitations, conditions, or restrictions upon the right to keep and bear arms.

"Shale not be infringed" means any desired limitations must meet Strict Scrutiny. There can be limitations, such as the requirement to be of the Age Of Majority(18 years old) to buy, for example, but every limit must either pass the Strict Scrutiny test or be struck down.

And you telling me I should not be allowed to keep a gun in plain view on my kitchen table or have a shotgun leaning in the corner shows you are not interested in rights but are only interested in being in control of how other people keep arms. That puts you in the same league as any other anti gunner... actually it puts you in a much worse category... that of a gun owner who supports anti gunners goals.

Hidden in a tissue box is not "in plain view" but that's besides the point. I argue that your gun should either be on your person or locked. If this exact same tissue-paper device had any kind of lock on it, I would be satisfied and sleep well

Sorry Blueshell, but your views are definitely anti right to keep arms in any way other than the way you say should be allowed... exactly like every other anti rights anti gunner.

In your opinion, which you are we,come to.

Bottom line is quite simple... I, and everyone else, have the right to keep an arm in any manner we wish including on the kitchen table, leaning in the corner, or hidden inside a tissue box because it isn't about the tissue box, the kitchen table, or the corner... it is about the right to keep an arm without having the infringement of someone saying how it is... or how it isn't ......... allowed.

Well no you don't, and neither do I, a person who carries every day. No right is without limits.

By the way, you are ignoring the simple fact that some other people don't have children, don't have children visiting, or if they do have children visiting they put the tissue box with the gun in it away during the visit...

That's on purpose, yes. OP doesn't target an individual and so I try not to either.

 

[Firefighterchen]

You have a right keep arms, you do not have a right to keep tissue boxes.

The state is well within it's rights to designate a product hazardous to the public and remove it from the market, and it does this all the time with safety recalls, and tort & class-action lawsuits.

You think a tissue box is hazardous? Are tissue boxes not allowed in your safe space?

Of course. Your firearm should be either on your person, or locked. Define for yourself what 'locked' means. In a locked car, in a locked room, in a lock box, in a safe...when I store my revolver in my bag at work it's just trigger locked. I even keep it loaded. That's about where I set the bar.

How about a locked house? No tissue boxes allowed in a locked house?

Sent from my SM-N920T using USA Carry mobile app

 

[Ringo]

Shall not be infringed MEANS EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS. The govt (any of them) has zero, zilch, nada, power to say anything whatsoever about "arms" yet here you go accepting, and even promoting INFRINGEMENTS!

Unfortunately, the 2nd Amendment has already been infringed upon over 25,000 times.

 

[Bikenut]

"Shale not be infringed" means any desired limitations must meet Strict Scrutiny. There can be limitations, such as the requirement to be of the Age Of Majority(18 years old) to buy, for example, but every limit must either pass the Strict Scrutiny test or be struck down.

Jumping Jesus in a wheat field!!! You really have no clue what "shall not be infringed" means do you? How can limitations, any limitations, be anything other than infringements? How can the words "shall not be" be interpreted as "it's ok as long as it meets the criteria of Strict Scrutiny"?

Well no you don't, and neither do I, a person who carries every day. No right is without limits.

Had you said no right comes without responsibilities I would fervently agree... but to say that no right is without limits is to say that limiting (infringing) upon rights is Ok. Had you said that a person can keep their arm(s) on the table, in the corner, inside a tissue box, above the mantle, or hanging on a nail on the wall but would suffer consequences of jail or worse if a child got possession and did some kind of harm I would have agreed with you. But the way you are arguing for limits (infringements) that you personally think are "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable" shows you do not understand what a right is.

Here are a couple of hints...

-If a person has to ask permission (have a permit) that is not a right but a privilege controlled by whoever hands out the permits.

-If a person has to adhere to certain conditions/limits (otherwise known as ... infringements) then that is not a right but is a privilege controlled by whoever controls the conditions/limits (infringements).

The key word there is ... control. If the government, Federal, State, or Local, is in control of who, where, why, when, how, and with what, is allowed then that is not a right but is the infringement of government control. Doesn't matter if you agree with that control or not..... the simple fact of control through limits, permits, conditions, requirements, or qualifications then it is not a right but is a privilege controlled by whoever controls the limits, permits, conditions, requirements, and qualifications.

But I suspect I am wasting my time explaining these things to you because your own posts show you do not believe in rights but certainly do believe that people's rights should be controlled.... preferably the way you personally think is "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable". And that is the exact attitude of every control freak, anti-gunner out there.

By the way... I live in Michigan and carry openly every where I go in every place it is legal including government meetings to fight against gun control laws/ordinances. Does that make me special? Absolutely not... no more special than you mentioning you carrying everyday. Not to mention there are others on this forum who have done much much more than I fighting against government infringement and fighting against anti gunner lite gun owners who say they support the right to KEEP (keep means having including inside a tissue box!) and bear arms but really support wanting more government infringement just because that is what they think everyone else should have to do.

No wonder there are so many gun control laws.... how can there not be with so many gun owners not understanding what the right to ... keep... and bear ... arms really is.

 

[bofh]

There are people MUCH worse than anti-gunners, and I see at least 2 of them on this thread.... They THINK they are pro gun, or pro rights, but have demonstrated with their words they are neither.... they are "pro rights BUT only in the way I wish them to be exercised" ... Talk about perfect idiots for the left and liberals to use as examples to further infringe on our rights....

I am glad that you finally admit your problem of not supporting the rights of others that disagree with you. Looking in the mirror does that sometimes. The next time you decide trolling on one of my posts, try to respond instead of just throwing out accusations that can't be backed up. As I said in post #7, you just sound stupid.

And for the record, I have NEVER posted that I am "pro rights BUT only in the way I wish them to be exercised." I already called you out for that in post #35. No response from you on that, because you accused me of something that I haven't done. Troll!

 

[Blueshell]

Jumping Jesus in a wheat field!!! You really have no clue what "shall not be infringed" means do you? How can limitations, any limitations, be anything other than infringements? How can the words "shall not be" be interpreted as "it's ok as long as it meets the criteria of Strict Scrutiny"?

Had you said no right comes without responsibilities I would fervently agree... but to say that no right is without limits is to say that limiting (infringing) upon rights is Ok. Had you said that a person can keep their arm(s) on the table, in the corner, inside a tissue box, above the mantle, or hanging on a nail on the wall but would suffer consequences of jail or worse if a child got possession and did some kind of harm I would have agreed with you. But the way you are arguing for limits (infringements) that you personally think are "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable" shows you do not understand what a right is.

Here are a couple of hints...

-If a person has to ask permission (have a permit) that is not a right but a privilege controlled by whoever hands out the permits.

-If a person has to adhere to certain conditions/limits (otherwise known as ... infringements) then that is not a right but is a privilege controlled by whoever controls the conditions/limits (infringements).

The key word there is ... control. If the government, Federal, State, or Local, is in control of who, where, why, when, how, and with what, is allowed then that is not a right but is the infringement of government control. Doesn't matter if you agree with that control or not..... the simple fact of control through limits, permits, conditions, requirements, or qualifications then it is not a right but is a privilege controlled by whoever controls the limits, permits, conditions, requirements, and qualifications.

But I suspect I am wasting my time explaining these things to you because your own posts show you do not believe in rights but certainly do believe that people's rights should be controlled.... preferably the way you personally think is "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable". And that is the exact attitude of every control freak, anti-gunner out there.

By the way... I live in Michigan and carry openly every where I go in every place it is legal including government meetings to fight against gun control laws/ordinances. Does that make me special? Absolutely not... no more special than you mentioning you carrying everyday. Not to mention there are others on this forum who have done much much more than I fighting against government infringement and fighting against anti gunner lite gun owners who say they support the right to KEEP (keep means having including inside a tissue box!) and bear arms but really support wanting more government infringement just because that is what they think everyone else should have to do.

No wonder there are so many gun control laws.... how can there not be with so many gun owners not understanding what the right to ... keep... and bear ... arms really is.

The second amendment doesn't apply to storage devices.

It's that simple.

 

[Blueshell]

"Shall not be infringed" means exactly what it says.... the government shall not institute any limitations, conditions, or restrictions upon the right to keep and bear arms.

That's not what 'infringe' means. Look up the definition of the word. There can be limitations, but they have to follow the rules so that they don't encroach or undermine the right.

 

[Blueshell]

By the way... I live in Michigan and carry openly every where I go in every place it is legal including government meetings to fight against gun control laws/ordinances.

If you actually believed the right is unlimited then you would carry anywhere you pleased and killed any cop sent to stop you.

The fact that you aren't posting from prison for cop killing demonstrates you're full of ****.

See you actually obay gun free zones. I don't. If you don't want me to be armed in a given place then you'd better set up metal detectors. Meanwhile there you are being a compliant sheep, talking a big game when really you're just a little *****

Look up your 4th grade teacher and ask her to define "infringe" for you since you obviously fall short of the requisite intelligence to speak on this topic.

Now be a good little lemming and go find a no-gun sign to obay.

 

[Blueshell]

But I suspect I am wasting my time explaining these things to you because your own posts show you do not believe in rights but certainly do believe that people's rights should be controlled.... preferably the way you personally think is "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable". And that is the exact attitude of every control freak, anti-gunner out there.

Yeah, I'm so anti gun I make monthly donations to the two federal cases moving through the system to remove the machine gun ban.

Here's more ammo for you, I advocate putting cleaning chemicals away instead of leaving those laying around. Ooo BlueShell must be anti-chemical, right? I advocate putting cooking utensils away when you're done cooking instead of leaving laying around. Oooo BlueShell must be anti-cutlery, right?

You should wear your seatbelt. Oh noes BlueShell is anti-car!

Look I'm trying to see things from your perspective but I just can't get my head that far up my ass.

 

[Bikenut]

If you actually believed the right is unlimited then you would carry anywhere you pleased and killed any cop sent to stop you.

The fact that you aren't posting from prison for cop killing demonstrates you're full of ****.

See you actually obay gun free zones. I don't. If you don't want me to be armed in a given place then you'd better set up metal detectors. Meanwhile there you are being a compliant sheep, talking a big game when really you're just a little *****

Look up your 4th grade teacher and ask her to define "infringe" for you since you obviously fall short of the requisite intelligence to speak on this topic.

Now be a good little lemming and go find a no-gun sign to obay.

Yeah, I'm so anti gun I make monthly donations to the two federal cases moving through the system to remove the machine gun ban.

Here's more ammo for you, I advocate putting cleaning chemicals away instead of leaving those laying around. Ooo BlueShell must be anti-chemical, right? I advocate putting cooking utensils away when you're done cooking instead of leaving laying around. Oooo BlueShell must be anti-cutlery, right?

You should wear your seatbelt. Oh noes BlueShell is anti-car!

Look I'm trying to see things from your perspective but I just can't get my head that far up my ass.

Ahhh yes... the typical response filled with censored bad words. So very (un)impressive.

You are overlooking the word "keep" in the 2nd Amendment.

Link Removed

keep (kēp)
v. kept, keep·ing, keeps
v.tr.
1. To retain possession of: kept the change; must keep your composure.
2. To have as a supply: keep spare parts in case of emergency.
3.
a. To provide (a family, for example) with maintenance and support: "There's little to earn and many to keep" (Charles Kingsley).
b. To support (a mistress or lover) financially.
4. To put customarily; store: Where do you keep your saw?
Bold added by me for emphasis....

So I can "keep" (store) my gun in a tissue box (or even in that place you so (un)cleverly suggested my head may be) if I so choose because to "keep" (store) is also part of the 2nd Amendment. Whether you agree with the method I choose to "keep" " (store in a tissue box for future use) is immaterial because to "keep" (store) is also part of the 2nd Amendment.

Link Removed

store (stôr)
-snip-
tr.v. stored, stor·ing, stores
1. To reserve or put away for future use.

But then.... I waste even more of my time.

 

[Blueshell]

Ahhh yes... the typical response filled with censored bad words. So very (un)impressive.

You are overlooking the word "keep" in the 2nd Amendment.

Link Removed

keep (kēp)
v. kept, keep·ing, keeps
v.tr.
1. To retain possession of: kept the change; must keep your composure.
2. To have as a supply: keep spare parts in case of emergency.
3.
a. To provide (a family, for example) with maintenance and support: "There's little to earn and many to keep" (Charles Kingsley).
b. To support (a mistress or lover) financially.
4. To put customarily; store: Where do you keep your saw?
Bold added by me for emphasis....

So I can "keep" (store) my gun in a tissue box (or even in that place you so (un)cleverly suggested my head may be) if I so choose because to "keep" (store) is also part of the 2nd Amendment. Whether you agree with the method I choose to "keep" " (store in a tissue box for future use) is immaterial because to "keep" (store) is also part of the 2nd Amendment.

Link Removed

store (stôr)
-snip-
tr.v. stored, stor·ing, stores
1. To reserve or put away for future use.

But then.... I waste even more of my time.

'Keep' applies to arms. Tissue boxes are not arms. Arms can be kept without tissue boxes.

The second amendment does not apply to the product in OP.

 

[Hatchetman]

I am glad that you finally admit your problem of not supporting the rights of others that disagree with you. Looking in the mirror does that sometimes. The next time you decide trolling on one of my posts, try to respond instead of just throwing out accusations that can't be backed up. As I said in post #7, you just sound stupid.

And for the record, I have NEVER posted that I am "pro rights BUT only in the way I wish them to be exercised." I already called you out for that in post #35. No response from you on that, because you accused me of something that I haven't done. Troll!

Wow, you really are stupid arent you/ YOUR WORDS SHOW ALL OF US WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU STAND FOR! YOUR WORDS TELL US PLAINLY THAT YOU ARE "pro rights ONLY in the way YOU wish them to be exercised"

 

[Blueshell]

Wow, you really are stupid arent you/ YOUR WORDS SHOW ALL OF US WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU STAND FOR! YOUR WORDS TELL US PLAINLY THAT YOU ARE "pro rights ONLY in the way YOU wish them to be exercised"

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

[Hatchetman]

If you actually believed the right is unlimited then you would carry anywhere you pleased and killed any cop sent to stop you.

The fact that you aren't posting from prison for cop killing demonstrates you're full of ****.

See you actually obay gun free zones. I don't. If you don't want me to be armed in a given place then you'd better set up metal detectors. Meanwhile there you are being a compliant sheep, talking a big game when really you're just a little *****

Look up your 4th grade teacher and ask her to define "infringe" for you since you obviously fall short of the requisite intelligence to speak on this topic.

Now be a good little lemming and go find a no-gun sign to obay.

Wow, even more stupid drivel from someone without a clue... You actually think killing cops is exercising the 2nd amendment? Any sane person with half a brain could see that murder isnt mentioned in the 2nd.... in fact, none of our rights say anything at all about murder being legal or a "right"..... Are you one of those liberals so scared of their own shadow that they project what THEY WOULD DO IF THEY HAD A GUN onto others? sure looks like it.

 

[Blueshell]

Wow, even more stupid drivel from someone without a clue... You actually think killing cops is exercising the 2nd amendment?

I said nothing of cops exercising the 2nd amendment.

I said:

...If you actually believed the right is unlimited then you would carry anywhere you pleased and killed any cop sent to stop you. ...

In othwrwords you would carry anywhere you wanted and kill anyone who tried to stop you.

 

[Bikenut]

'Keep' applies to arms. Tissue boxes are not arms. Arms can be kept without tissue boxes.

The second amendment does not apply to the product in OP.

The 2nd Amendment applies to the right to "keep" and "bear.... "arms". It applies to 3 separate things... keeping (owning/storing) arms, bearing (carrying/transporting) arms, and arms themselves.

The definition of "arms"....

Link Removed

arm 2 (ärm)
n.
1. A weapon, especially a firearm: troops bearing arms; ICBMs, bombs, and other nuclear arms.

The definition of "bear"...

Link Removed

bear 1 (bâr)
v. bore (bôr), borne (bôrn) or born (bôrn), bear·ing, bears
v.tr.
1.
a. To carry (something) on one's person from one place to another: bore the suitcase to the station.
b. To move from one place to another while containing or supporting (something); convey or transport: a train bearing grain. See Synonyms at carry.

The definition of "keep"...

Link Removed

keep (kēp)
-snip-
4. To put customarily; store: Where do you keep your saw?

"Keep" applies to the method(s) a person chooses to "store" their arms. Arms can be "kept" in many ways including in tissue boxes, on the kitchen table, leaning against the wall in a corner, or in a safe. But the important part is individuals have the right to "keep" their arms in any manner they wish... and it is the anti gunners who are arguing for "safe storage (keeping) of arms." By the way...."Safe storage" is a term that changes according to the individual anti gunner's personal opinions since some want guns only kept in safes at all times and some are content to require guns must be either locked up or carried on the person at all times but the basic premise of "do it MY way" is always the same.

Now... I've explained it all in plain English with cites and links. But then, I am absolutely sure I have once again wasted my time.

 

[Blueshell]

The 2nd Amendment applies to the right to "keep" and "bear.... "arms". It applies to 3 separate things... keeping (owning/storing) arms, bearing (carrying/transporting) arms, and arms themselves.

The definition of "arms"....

Link Removed

arm 2 (ärm)
n.
1. A weapon, especially a firearm: troops bearing arms; ICBMs, bombs, and other nuclear arms.

The definition of "bear"...

Link Removed

bear 1 (bâr)
v. bore (bôr), borne (bôrn) or born (bôrn), bear·ing, bears
v.tr.
1.
a. To carry (something) on one's person from one place to another: bore the suitcase to the station.
b. To move from one place to another while containing or supporting (something); convey or transport: a train bearing grain. See Synonyms at carry.

The definition of "keep"...

Link Removed

keep (kēp)
-snip-
4. To put customarily; store: Where do you keep your saw?

"Keep" applies to the method(s) a person chooses to "store" their arms. Arms can be "kept" in many ways including in tissue boxes, on the kitchen table, leaning against the wall in a corner, or in a safe. But the important part is individuals have the right to "keep" their arms in any manner they wish... and it is the anti gunners who are arguing for "safe storage (keeping) of arms." By the way...."Safe storage" is a term that changes according to the individual anti gunner's personal opinions since some want guns only kept in safes at all times and some are content to require guns must be either locked up or carried on the person at all times but the basic premise of "do it MY way" is always the same.

Now... I've explained it all in plain English with cites and links. But then, I am absolutely sure I have once again wasted my time.

I don't argue what 'keep' means.

I argue that a limitation placed on the right to keep and bear arms isn't automatically an infringement, my previous example being the age requirement. The limitation on 'keep' I support is not an infringement because it doesn't encroach upon or undermine the right to keep and bear arms.

And yes I know what anti-gunners say, but if Hitler and I were standing on a porch one fine summer day and Hitler said "the sky is blue", I would be inclined to agree, and agreeing wouldn't mean I was a Nazi.

 

[Bikenut]

I don't argue what 'keep' means.

I argue that a limitation placed on 'keep' isn't automatically an infringement, that the limitation on 'keep' I support is not an infringement because it doesn't encroach upon or undermine the right to keep and bear arms.

And yes I know what anti-gunners say, but if Hitler and I were standing on a porch one fine summer day and Hitler said "the sky is blue", I would be inclined to agree, and agreeing wouldn't mean I was a Nazi.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."Bold added by me for emphasis....

infringe: definition of infringe in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)

infringe
See definition in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary
Syllabification: in·fringe
Pronunciation: /inˈfrinj/
Definition of infringe in English:
verb (infringes, infringing, infringed)
[with object]
1Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.): making an unauthorized copy would infringe copyright
More example sentences
Synonyms
1.1Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on:
Bold and underline added by me for emphasis....

You would limit the right to keep arms to only the methods you consider "reasonable", "appropriate", and most importantly... "acceptable". You are advocating infringing upon the right to keep arms. There it is in plain English with cites and links.

 

[bofh]

I am glad that you finally admit your problem of not supporting the rights of others that disagree with you. Looking in the mirror does that sometimes. The next time you decide trolling on one of my posts, try to respond instead of just throwing out accusations that can't be backed up. As I said in post #7, you just sound stupid.

And for the record, I have NEVER posted that I am "pro rights BUT only in the way I wish them to be exercised." I already called you out for that in post #35. No response from you on that, because you accused me of something that I haven't done. Troll!

Wow, you really are stupid arent you/ YOUR WORDS SHOW ALL OF US WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU STAND FOR! YOUR WORDS TELL US PLAINLY THAT YOU ARE "pro rights ONLY in the way YOU wish them to be exercised"

Once again, you have failed to respond to my challenge in post #35. You seem to be hellbent to make something out of nothing. Troll!