I apologize for the length of my post.....
My comments are offered in the spirit of giving food for thought....
Not to jump in uninvited or anything on this topic but....I agree with both of your arguments regarding how to react to a LEO encounter. The videos that circulate of people trying to make LEO look like idiots are doing more harm than good. Fueling anti gun fires. At the same time it is the responsibility of a citizen to know and exercise his rights.
It is the citizen exercising his rights when he refuses to allow a cop to violate those rights. Just because the guy is wearing a cop's uniform doesn't give him the authority to violate people's rights. And.. if no citizens step up (often by just complying out of the desire to not suffer the inconvenience/expense of fighting to support rights) and resist those violations then those violations will not only continue but get worse simply because .... no one stood up.
As far as videos fueling anti gun fires those videos often show the cops violating the law while the OCers', who might be less than polite to the police who are being less than polite to the OCers, violated absolutely no laws. And I'd like to point out that it was folks in Michigan who stood up OCing filing law suits against the police (that were won) because of confrontations. All this caused huge media coverage resulting in educating the general population that open carry was not only legal but no permit was needed. In fact OC caused the Michigan State Police to issue
http://michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf
explaining the legality of open carry to police depts. all over the State. Now THAT is a major positive caused by what some would call behavior that "fuels anti gun fires".
And there is more.... a case involving a library in Lansing Mich. went to the Mich. Supreme Court that upheld a previous Appeals Court decision that only the State legislature can make gun laws. And that happened because a young man legally exercised his right to bear arms by openly carried a shotgun into a library. Without that "fuels anti gun fires" behavior Michigan would not have that very important decision.
Link to timeline for that decision:
CADL v MOC - Chronological History | Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
Here are my thoughts...
If an officer asks to see my permit and asks why I feel the need to OC I intend to respectfully oblige. Not because "respect is earned" but because I'm a respectful person. If I'm a good guy then why give off the disrespectful arrogance of the bad guys?
In some States it is law to produce a carry permit when asked by the police. But here is a question.... if you are a good guy then why is the cop treating you like a bad guy by wanting you to prove you are a good guy just because you are legally exercising the right to bear arms openly? Now carefully consider the following question...... If you have nothing to hide then why is the cop looking for something hidden expecting you to prove you aren't hiding something?
LEO'S are doing their job just like I do mine every day. If I don't want the hassle I'll CC. I know that when I strap on my weapon in plain sight that there is a possibility that I will have to defend my reason for doing so.
Please consider this... many men and women died on battlefields since the 1700's so you would have the freedom to take the easy way out and CC in order to avoid standing up for what they died for in exchange for the convenience of not having to deal with some "hassle". I'm not saying you are wrong for wanting to avoid that hassle... I'm pointing out that others stood up and took the ultimate "hassle" in hopes you will think about that.
Point is...there is no reason to make a scene when it is simply not necessary. I have nothing to hide in regards to my intent to carry. If anything, I want the cops on my side if the day ever comes that I have to discharge my weapon in defense. Might not bode well in court when an officer who has encountered me in the past reports that I was a d*ck during a routine check...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using USA Carry mobile app
Some folks consider standing up for rights absolutely necessary and more than reason enough to "make a scene"... and those videos seen on utube wouldn't be there
if the cops had not hassled the OCer(s) in the first place so let's put the onus for the encounter going bad where it belongs... on the cops who went looking for something, anything, to jack the OCer(s) up on. Doesn't matter if you, I, or the cops, think the method of carry, or the gun that is being carried, is not acceptable... what matters is whether or not it is legal. And if it is then there is no reason for the cops to do anything other than to observe that there are no laws being broken and leave people alone instead of wanting to see their papers or trying to intimidate them.
And think about this... the cops show up AFTER you have either won or lost the battle with the bad guy. And it won't make any difference how nice you have been to them in the past or how many doughnuts you paid for.. they will stick to procedure anyway.
I used to be like you my friend... I used to look to the cops for protection. I've paid for many a cop's meal (and will in the future since I'm not anti cop and have respect for good cops while despising cops who think they are above common folk) but I am realistic in what the relationship between cop and ordinary people is... and it isn't that cops are knights in shining armor riding to the rescue of victims (most will if they can but that ISN'T their function) but a cop's job is to be suspicious of everyone hoping to find something hidden so they can arrest someone. Investigating crimes and arresting people is their function but that happens AFTER the crime has occurred ... which means a cop's function isn't to protect anyone.
In fact, the Federal Supreme Court has ruled that the police DO NOT have a duty to protect anyone:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0
My point is that just because someone thinks the actions of others are over the top, in your face, or could "fuel anti gun fires", doesn't mean it isn't necessary to cause a scene with over the top and in your face actions that actually end up quenching those anti gun fires simply because hiding from the fight for fear of losing not only doesn't win the fight .... but also doesn't do anything at all to put out those anti gun fires that are constantly burning anyway.
Rights... use 'em or lose 'em.