Got denied entry into gun show today
- Thread starter Buster04
- Start date
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ezkl2230
Guest
Here's what I see: I see insurance company exclusions and businesses run by those who have no respect for our Second Amendment rights in the first place proliferating. I see the number of places where we are "permitted" to exercise our Constitutional RIGHT dwindling. And yet, it is the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS - NOT the decision NOT TO EXERCISE the right - that is explicitly protected by the Constitution. No where does the Constitution enumerate a right NOT to bear arms.
According to Madison, the concern is not with the protection of the rights of the MAJORITY, but those of the MINORITY. If the numbers are to be believed, firearms owners are in the minority in the United States; the number of carriers represent an even smaller percentage of the population. What we are witnessing is the implementation of a de facto carry ban - simply making it too difficult to exercise a Constitutionally enumerated right. In other words from Madison,
That is the great tension of a REPUBLIC - protecting the rights of the minority AND the majority at the same time.
I am in agreement with you, as far as what I quoted, and I will leave the remainder for another time.
Again, I agree with you on the part I quoted, and don't disagree on the remainder, but am simply leaving it for another time.
But let me address an angle I haven't seen here yet. In the case of the local "Stop&Rob" chain, or the local eatery, if they put a "No Guns" sign on the door, they are inviting someone to rob both them and their customers. In the case of a school, by making it a gun free zone, they are inviting a madman to murder the children. On these points, I have seen others in agreement.
In the case of a gun show, a gun store (at least here in Texas), and some jewelry stores, there is no such invitation. Simply by virtue of the number of armed personnel commonly on site. And in the case of a gun show, it is likely a good portion of them will be re-armed before leaving, providing a good deterrent in the parking lot.
I commonly advocate, in the cases of the Stop&Rob, the Eatery, and the School, if someone is a crime victim on their premise, the store manager be held criminally liable for aiding the criminal. And in the case where the insurance companies are jacking people around, make the same rule for whoever employed the actuary. That might be a good first step towards restoring sanity.
A similar rule could be applied to gun shows. If someone is disarmed by the gun show management, and subsequently robbed or otherwise feloniously harmed by anyone who didn't pay to get in, on the premiss hold the management liable. I bet the gun shows would keep their policies in place. And after a few store managers went to prison, a lot of Stop&Rob's would change their policies.
Rocketgeezer
New member
Peggy, if your looking for something in particular you should ck around on line, buds gun shop, gunbroker, are a couple but there are several dealers that sell on both guns and ammo, if you have a pawn shop near you that sells guns they surely would have a FFL, so you could have the online dealer ship it to them, and then you pay them a transfer fee, usualy $20, and go home with your gun, kind of a pain in the ass, to have to do it that way vs just going to a dealer and buying it, and don't get to fired up about (DICKS) cause I'v found that's what most of them are, stuff way overpriced, same go's for Gander Mt, and Bass pro shops, there stuff is jacked up at least 40% over cost, just google what want and ck around, it will take some work on the computer, but just about anything is available if you look in right place, also if you have trouble feel free to PM me and I'l ether find it or point you somewhere that has it
Peggy Reist
New member
No, I'm not looking for anything in particular. I've never been in any DlCK'S, Cabela's, Gander Mt, or Bass Pro shops so I wasn't aware of what their prices were. Yes there are plenty of FFLs around that would be happy to receive any guns for me. And most of them have tables at gun shows. They just don't have shops or stores. At a gun show, I can see everything in one place.
The only gun I've seen lately that I think I might need is a Kahr .40. There are usually several dealers at the gun shows that have them within $25 of each other. I've held them and I like the way they feel better than the two I usually carry.
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ezkl2230
Guest
And the problem with your line of thought is that my right to provide for the defense of myself and my family is somehow related to the number of LEOs available. There are LEOs on duty at gun shows, therefore, I have no need or right to provide for my own protection. There is NO Constitutional support for that assumption, and as a practical matter, SCOTUS and various other federal and state courts have consistently ruled in no fewer than 10 different decisions that the police aren't there for OUR protection, they are there to provide for the protection of SOCIETY. They can respond to a threat during a gun show IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO, BUT ARE UNDER NO ACTUAL LEGAL OBLIGATION TO DO SO. Warren v DC:
Castle Rock v. Gonzales (this one is CRYSTAL clear):
As for Stop and Robs, Family Dollars, and other such chains, the fact is that they have been robbed more times and have suffered the deaths of more employees than than anyone can count, yet they continue to post themselves as pistol free zones and their company handbooks clearly forbid their employees to carry ANY weapon (including pepper spray) in their own defense. It has been consistently upheld that companies are under no specific obligation to provide for the security of their employees - neither can they be held responsible if employees are injured or killed because of that failure.
In short, you argument is without any basis in legal reality.
Well I agree with everything you said, but I guess you missed my intent that we begin a campaign to chang the law, and therefore change the "legal reality."
We The People got concealed carry passed.
Now it is time to recover more of our National Sanity.
The nice thing about gun shows Gander Mountain Ruger SR45 $529.00 ------ Gun Show in Virginia $399.00. That is why I don't mind having my gun checked at the door. For $130.00 that I can give to Gander Mountain, I can carry a loaded pistol...that is the cost of the insurance. I don't need a loaded firearm in a gun show.
Buster04
New member
You would give up your 2A rights just to save a few bucks? I purchased the SR45 on line for 379.00 + 25.00 fee.
Phillygunteacher
New member
When I went to one up here in PA they didn't ask me to check it however I'm a agent and we are law enforcement and I had my badge near it but I unloaded it but he let me keep my magazine
Gibraltar trade center which has 2 locations in Michigan, and hosts gun-shows at each (different times of course) Has disallowed carry inside the "event" area (where the show happens) but in the rest of the building its ok to carry.
Of the times I have been there - only 1 time did I allow my pistol to be locked with the ziptie thing.
though I do like seeing all the guns and various prices - my only problem is some of the scummy sellers and the few jerkoff sellers..
One seller I saw last time i went - just seemed off - his table had no firearms - no ammo - just old military surplus stuff and he always was giving people the stink eye..
The jerkoff ones (normally at least 2-3 per show) are ones that talk like they know it all on firearms - yet sell some of the roughest looking stuff, and then charge premium prices for things that you might not want to shoot without having checked by gunsmith.
And yes - I agree Gander Mountain prices for firearms is always higher then just about anywhere else I have shopped.. Even for the used stuff - they charge premium prices..
Last time i went to one - was in Taylor MI - the prices for ammo was hilariously high.. While my local walmart / Meijer stores still had "honest" prices (well when they have stock).
Of the times I have been there - only 1 time did I allow my pistol to be locked with the ziptie thing.
though I do like seeing all the guns and various prices - my only problem is some of the scummy sellers and the few jerkoff sellers..
One seller I saw last time i went - just seemed off - his table had no firearms - no ammo - just old military surplus stuff and he always was giving people the stink eye..
The jerkoff ones (normally at least 2-3 per show) are ones that talk like they know it all on firearms - yet sell some of the roughest looking stuff, and then charge premium prices for things that you might not want to shoot without having checked by gunsmith.
And yes - I agree Gander Mountain prices for firearms is always higher then just about anywhere else I have shopped.. Even for the used stuff - they charge premium prices..
Last time i went to one - was in Taylor MI - the prices for ammo was hilariously high.. While my local walmart / Meijer stores still had "honest" prices (well when they have stock).
Warbirds
New member
During my day to day activities I do not handle unfamiliar firearms, put a rifle up to my shoulder, try to find a safe direction in a massive crowd to point a pistol to look down the sights, work the action of a firearm, look down the barrel to check the bore then try to figure out how to get the bolt back in etc etc etc.
In fact most days once it is in my holster, except for a discrete maneuver to fix it if it shifts, I do not even put my hand on my gun as I don't need to.
Now, if I touch an average of 100 guns at a gun show and so does the 24,000 other people what are the chances of an accident compared to the 15 people in McDonald's during which time no one touches my gun?
I zip tie my gun myself, replace my magazine and pocket the round. I remove the zip tie at the table when I leave and discretely chamber a round at my car. I don't have a problem with it. I see a difference in honest safety concerns and baseless policy.
And there is a good chance that the guy won't be able to shoot 23999 other people before I get my zip tie cut off and a round chambered.
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I didn't give up anything...I agreed to abide by their rules as it is their venue. That after all is another right I have...to agree to certain standards at certain events. I could have stayed off the premises and carried open or concealed all I want. If they come to my property they can't bring alcohol although the laws about prohibition were repealed. Ya wanna drink...stay home. I am just not one of those people that think I need to be locked and loaded when I get up at night to take a piss. Just my opinion. Where did you get an SR45 for 379.00. How much was the shipping?
wolf_fire
New member
It's not that your gun is not welcome at a gun show... that would be most ridiculous, after all it is a GUN show. What they don't want is a loaded gun.
The bad press is enough to discourage it.
I just typed in "gun goes off at gun show" in google and this is what came up:
Link Removed
If I were running a gun show and knew idiots like this would be coming in, I'd make them unload at the front door too. If they don't like, they can save their $10 and go elsewhere.
I always hear, well a gun never went off by itself. I agree, it takes a stupid person or more than one for it to go off at a gun show.
apvbguy
New member
FWIW: when DIcks bowed to the antis by removing firearms from their stores they became DEAD to me and many others. around here we have academy sports which serves us well and they never caved into the pressures from the antis
apvbguy
New member
when the antis ask why do you need a gun in church, what will you say? when they ask why do you need a gun in your car, what will you say, when the antis ask why do you need a gun in your home what will you say?
That isn't what I heard him say. I heard him say that, at a gun show, he trusts the dozen (or sometimes, many dozen) that ARE armed to watch his back while he takes a moment's respite from being on guard and enjoys the pleasures of the gun show.
Same when I took a shower over on the north side of the camp, I left my rifle and mag with a guy I trusted to watch it and trusted the perimeter defense to watch my back, rather than take a shower with my rifle on my shoulder.
Not even a player, unless there are dedicated armed guards watching the perimeter of the Church. (And I have gone to a church that had armed guards, as well as one where everyone in the congregation had their rifle.)
