Technically, the gun was transferred to the father when the son left it in Florida with him, if the father had unrestricted access to it. There could be a claim of "storage" if the father did not have access to the gun, like it was in a locked safe that the father did not have the combination or key to. If the son comes back to Florida, he is still a resident of Illinois, visiting Florida. If he takes possession of the gun again, he is "OBTAINING" that firearm from an out of state source, his father who has complete unrestricted access to the gun in the complete absence of his son, and then returning to his home state with it. That violates 18 USC 922 (a)(3).
Mail My Son A Gun?
- Thread starter Kramer1113
- Start date
Technically, the gun was transferred to the father when the son left it in Florida with him, if the father had unrestricted access to it. There could be a claim of "storage" if the father did not have access to the gun, like it was in a locked safe that the father did not have the combination or key to. If the son comes back to Florida, he is still a resident of Illinois, visiting Florida. If he takes possession of the gun again, he is "OBTAINING" that firearm from an out of state source, his father who has complete unrestricted access to the gun in the complete absence of his son, and then returning to his home state with it. That violates 18 USC 922 (a)(3).
I must have a crystal ball. So, I've got to ask this.... all these posts coming up with ways to try to transfer the gun directly to the son while very questionably skirting the requirements of the current laws (not you davcommander, you actually asked a very legitimate question)..... why is it so hard just to ship the gun to an Illinois FFL and be done with it and no questions about complying with the law? If the son cannot legally receive the gun from an Illinois FFL, then there is a very good chance the firearm would be illegal for the son to possess in Illinois anyway.
S&W645
NRA Life Member
:nono:NOT TRUE! If you are a Florida resident and visiting Illinois, you may transport a firearm. Check with someone from Illinois on this, but I believe the gun must be in a locked container in the trunk of the vehicle and the ammunition carried in another location of the vehicle. Illinois can NOT prevent an out of state resident from transporting a weapon, but they do make it as difficult as possible.
The problems lies in:
1. That he is not the owner of the gun.
2. He is not a resident of the state of IL.
3. He doesn't have the FOID.
4. He is not an FFL.
5. He is not a shipping firm.
What he has become is a transporter of a handgun into a state that he doesn't own. He has violated Federal laws in the process. In reality, he violated the Federal laws as soon as he left the state of Florida with it. If the son had taken the gun with him when he moved to IL, he had 60 days from the date of getting his IL DL/ID Card to get his FOID.
davcommander
New member
Thanks CDR, I still say use a FFL to send it to him and avoid any and all legal issues. It really isn't that expensive I have bought some guns from onsite auctions and shipping is almost always less than $40. Just ensure the FOID has been obtained and he is good to go and you are out just a short period of time, the time to find a FFL and then the time for you to complete the transaction. Your son can pay for the shipping and you wouldn't even be out any $. A thought just occurred to me. Does he even want this gun or are just wanting to get it out of your home?
davcommander
New member
@S&W645, the FFL I use here in OK doesn't even charge for the background check. Maybe that is something that may also be avoided.
Kramer1113
New member
My son and I decided we would ship FFL to FFL.
Question though.
When I sent one of my hand guns in for repair I sent it VIA FedEx to the Manufacturer. When the Manufacturer sent it back, they sent it directly to me.
What's the difference.
Question though.
When I sent one of my hand guns in for repair I sent it VIA FedEx to the Manufacturer. When the Manufacturer sent it back, they sent it directly to me.
What's the difference.
Kramer1113
New member
Do you have or work in a gun shop I need to visit? I'm in Homosassa.
S&W645
NRA Life Member
A non-FFL can send a handgun directly to a manufacturer via FedEx or UPS and to certain others but not to a private individual by law. The manufacturer can send it directly back as the gun is already yours.
S&W645
NRA Life Member
I'm A far piece away from you. Like 5.5 hours away.:sad: Gun shop is in Homestead.
The certain others...a non-FFL can ship a handgun directly to any "licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector" in any state (not limited to just manufacturers. [18 USC 922 (a)(5)]. Which means in this case the father could ship the firearm directly to the Illinois FFL without using a dealer on the father's end. However, in the case of handguns, it's usually cheaper to allow an FFL to mail it via US Post Office which is against postal regulations for a non-FFL to do.
The reason the manufacturer can ship the gun directly back to the individual is because it is a specific exemption allowed by law [18 USC 922 (a)(2)(a)]:"(a) It shall be unlawful—
(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that—
(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;"
The reason for the exemption is probably because there is no transfer of ownership occurring.
S&W645
NRA Life Member
Another group under the "certain others" is the FBI or ATF and gov't in general. But the last paragraph of your quote is not correct. Red area in it. An individual cannot legally mail a handgun to anyone. Why? Because they do not meet the requirements of DMM 601.12.1.3 or 601.12.1.5. PS Form 1508 which is found in 601.12.1.6 requirement states
And by the way, Link Removed , has a major error. It isn't DMM 601.11.1 that applies. It is DMM 601.12 that applies.
Kramer1113
New member
Well Dagnabit. Ever see the Dolphin or Killer Whale show at the Miami SeaQuarium? My Cousin used to do the shows there. Marcia Davis was her maiden name. I haven't seen her in years!
No, the paragraph I quoted is exactly correct. Read it again and note the part that I have highlighted this time:
The paragraph is exactly correct as written. It is not 18 USC 922 (a) or (b) that prohibits (precludes) the mailing of a handgun by a private party. That prohibition is contained in an entirely different document, the Domestic Mail Manual.
