Why must those who clearly abhor the Bible and reject it as the eternal, inerrant Word of God decide to jump in on a discussion of Biblical principles and values. If you wish to lay aside the vehement spewing of malicious canned rhetoric and settle into an adult discussion I'm sure that some would be willing to do so.
Can You Handle The Truth?
- Thread starter Ringo
- Start date
Why must those who clearly abhor the Bible and reject it as the eternal, inerrant Word of God decide to jump in on a discussion of Biblical principles and values. If you wish to lay aside the vehement spewing of malicious canned rhetoric and settle into an adult discussion I'm sure that some would be willing to do so.
Read my post wacko.
Assume you're talking about the post referring to "religious wackos on this forum" as that is the only one I find in this thread. I hardly qualify that as adult discussion.
Farmhood
New member
Bust out a can of spray on this one...no food!
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
Tens of thousands of Israeli troops in surprise Golan drill
Reservists drafted at no notice, Air Force, Central Command and other IDF units were flown to Israel’s northern Golan border early Wednesday, Sept. 19, for a surprise exercise called by Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz under the codename “National Asset.”
The official IDF announcement tried to downplay its importance, describing it as a “planned, routine event.” However, debkafile’s military sources say the war game is the biggest the IDF has conducted in the eight years since the second Lebanon war on Hizballah in 2006, with tens of thousands of soldiers and senior officers, including the artillery and the air force taking part.
Over the last weekend, witnesses reported heavy traffic of convoys of tank and APC carriers and military vehicles with emergency store markings heading north, just days after the IDF completed a large-scale war game on Israel’s Syrian and Lebanese borders simulating a Hizballah attack.
Since early September, therefore, the Israeli Defense Forces have been in the midst of preparations which have the appearance of readiness for a real war rather than an exercise. Those preparations peaked Wednesday under a codename which signified its goal: the defense of national assets.
Another sign of an impending conflict was provided by US diplomats who Monday began destroying classified documents and sensitive equipment at the Beirut embassy. As Islamist anti-US violence raged across Arab and Muslim countries, the State Department said this was a precautionary measure, without naming any specific threat. The trashing of embassy documents usually signifies preparations to evacuate an US embassy at short notice. It would be imperative in a war situation to keep them out of Hizballah hands.
The official IDF announcement described the exercise as focusing on fire power under the command of chief Artillery Commander, Brig. Gen. Ro’i Riftin and due to end Wednesday night. The rapid deployment of military strength on this scale for a live-fire drill is required practice for an army facing the onset of war aggression. In the Persian Gulf, the US is leading 25 West European and Arab nations in a gigantic 12-day war game in the Straits of Hormuz which began Sunday, Sept 16. It includes a large-scale minesweeping drill to simulate the breaching of the Strait of Hormuz against Iranian efforts to block oil passage through the strategic waterway. The exercise - entirely by simulated measures - will also drill operations for destroying Iranian naval, air and missile bases in the Persian Gulf area and countering Iranian speedboats aiming to sabotage naval vessels and oil tankers.
Among the participants are the UK, France, Saudi Arabia and the UAE. The United States has deployed three aircraft carriers with aerial strike forces. Military sources estimate that when the war game ends on Sept 27, these forces will not disperse but stay on hand in the event of Israel attacking Iran’s nuclear program
I think that's a fair assessment.
DEBKA file
Reservists drafted at no notice, Air Force, Central Command and other IDF units were flown to Israel’s northern Golan border early Wednesday, Sept. 19, for a surprise exercise called by Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz under the codename “National Asset.”
The official IDF announcement tried to downplay its importance, describing it as a “planned, routine event.” However, debkafile’s military sources say the war game is the biggest the IDF has conducted in the eight years since the second Lebanon war on Hizballah in 2006, with tens of thousands of soldiers and senior officers, including the artillery and the air force taking part.
Over the last weekend, witnesses reported heavy traffic of convoys of tank and APC carriers and military vehicles with emergency store markings heading north, just days after the IDF completed a large-scale war game on Israel’s Syrian and Lebanese borders simulating a Hizballah attack.
Since early September, therefore, the Israeli Defense Forces have been in the midst of preparations which have the appearance of readiness for a real war rather than an exercise. Those preparations peaked Wednesday under a codename which signified its goal: the defense of national assets.
Another sign of an impending conflict was provided by US diplomats who Monday began destroying classified documents and sensitive equipment at the Beirut embassy. As Islamist anti-US violence raged across Arab and Muslim countries, the State Department said this was a precautionary measure, without naming any specific threat. The trashing of embassy documents usually signifies preparations to evacuate an US embassy at short notice. It would be imperative in a war situation to keep them out of Hizballah hands.
The official IDF announcement described the exercise as focusing on fire power under the command of chief Artillery Commander, Brig. Gen. Ro’i Riftin and due to end Wednesday night. The rapid deployment of military strength on this scale for a live-fire drill is required practice for an army facing the onset of war aggression. In the Persian Gulf, the US is leading 25 West European and Arab nations in a gigantic 12-day war game in the Straits of Hormuz which began Sunday, Sept 16. It includes a large-scale minesweeping drill to simulate the breaching of the Strait of Hormuz against Iranian efforts to block oil passage through the strategic waterway. The exercise - entirely by simulated measures - will also drill operations for destroying Iranian naval, air and missile bases in the Persian Gulf area and countering Iranian speedboats aiming to sabotage naval vessels and oil tankers.
Among the participants are the UK, France, Saudi Arabia and the UAE. The United States has deployed three aircraft carriers with aerial strike forces. Military sources estimate that when the war game ends on Sept 27, these forces will not disperse but stay on hand in the event of Israel attacking Iran’s nuclear program
convos
New member
To answer the question of "why discuss God/religion in a gun forum"...
It feels silly that i actually have to say this. It is a fair guess that most on this forum view the second amendment to our Constitution as an unalienable right and are rather adamant about ensuring their freedom to bear arms. In order to understand what "unalienable right" means, you kind of have to understand that these rights are granted by God, not man. Even if you don't believe in God, but believe in "Natural rights" as John Locke referred to them - you still believe that by nature of our existence there are rights that we have as living beings (i.e. life, liberty, pursuit of happiness). If those don't exist, whether by God or Nature, then that means they exist by the grace of Man - which is a terrifying prospect to me. I pose this question - Those of you that are adamant about your second amendment rights (and other unalienables) and do not believe in God; what justification do you use to ultimately defend your right to bear arms? Not trying to pick a fight here - i just want to hear from those of you who are of this mindset to clarify for me. Besides, since most of my debate occurs with anti second amendment libs (who are more often than not in my experience, athiests), it gives me some good fodder to meet on their playing field. Thanks in advance.
It feels silly that i actually have to say this. It is a fair guess that most on this forum view the second amendment to our Constitution as an unalienable right and are rather adamant about ensuring their freedom to bear arms. In order to understand what "unalienable right" means, you kind of have to understand that these rights are granted by God, not man. Even if you don't believe in God, but believe in "Natural rights" as John Locke referred to them - you still believe that by nature of our existence there are rights that we have as living beings (i.e. life, liberty, pursuit of happiness). If those don't exist, whether by God or Nature, then that means they exist by the grace of Man - which is a terrifying prospect to me. I pose this question - Those of you that are adamant about your second amendment rights (and other unalienables) and do not believe in God; what justification do you use to ultimately defend your right to bear arms? Not trying to pick a fight here - i just want to hear from those of you who are of this mindset to clarify for me. Besides, since most of my debate occurs with anti second amendment libs (who are more often than not in my experience, athiests), it gives me some good fodder to meet on their playing field. Thanks in advance.
Or maybe you can start a religious gun thread and all you wackos can go talk about end of days there!! That would work for a lot of us that want to read about guns and not YOUR personal beliefs in the bible,us normal people will keep reading the bible and take what we get out of it and go on with our beliefs and not what you think. How's that.
Seeya
New member
First the only Wacko I see is you! Second this is in the "Off Topic" section! Ever wonder why you are still alive after surviving a sinking? Maybe a hand from above! Why do you no longer own firearms? Could it be that you are a Wacko? Something is fishy!
Lost all my guns in a boating accident ,that's why I no longer have any? Never said i didn't believe in God,just have a more realistic view,I'm not a sheep like you and your buddies is all.
gunnerbob
PEW Professional
I'll try my best to articulate how I feel at this time...
I do not believe in a "personal god", such as the Christian God... however, I understand that something had to create everything out of nothing. While science can never disprove God, it can never prove God either... so, until that day that we humans actually discover the "God particle" we won't know what it was EXACTLY that was able to create something out of nothing. To say that God did, one could ask the question, "what created God?"... and by God, I don't necessarly mean the guy with the white beard(although, it might be him) but rather I mean that even understanding the Laws of Nature that control "how/why" our universe behaves the way it does... something had to create those laws to begin with, unless they themselves were created the moment the universe was b/c it's the only way it could be created in the first place.
However, this still begs the question... what was here before the creation of the universe? Nothing but vacum? We don't know... and probably never will... no matter if you believe in a "personal God" or not, that doesn't answer how or why the universe was created. We don't even know if ours is the only universe out there... we could be a universe within a universe, within a universe, etc... and does the universe ever actually end? What's beyond that? There are so many questions with no answers that even to decide to put faith in a "personal God" doesn't answer them all... it is actually no more "the" answer to how/why than not believing in a "personal God".
To me, the idea of God(in all forms) is the recognition by man that there are things we don't know how to explain. Science calls these things "effective theory"... like the idea of "free will"... if given enough time, free will could be examined down to the last cell of a body that was effected by experiance to stimuli that it wouldn't actually be "free will"... but the eventual sum of every cells reaction to everything. But, we don't have that time, or ability to fully examine so far in depth... so, we label it simply "free will".
Anyway, the idea of "God" is nothing more than what science calls an "effective theory"... it's what we humans choose to call something we currently don't have the ability to explain. And that something was our "creation", to include our universe. So, if someone wants to put their belief in the Christian God... so be it. Perhaps we humans don't learn of the moment of our creation until our eventual death...
I am not trying to pick a fight here, I do not wish to debate whatever evidence there is in favor of the Christian God... or the lack of. I am simply recognizing that "something" must have created everything from "nothing", and some call that God. So, if our rights come from anything... sure, they came from God, Nature, whatever created everything there is... whatever put in every living thing what we call our unalienables "rights".
Cheers
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
Bob, some people don't care about truth, to them no amount of truth is sufficient. They are delusional and therefore refuse to accept truth. Psychiatrists define a delusion as a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact. You're one of these people. Of course you don't want to debate the evidence, your mind is made up and you don't want to be confused when confronted with facts. Why do I say this? Be assured it's not intended to be disrespectful, just truthful. Because there is 100% evidence in favor of the Christian God with ZERO LACK OF. In one breath you say truth begs question, but because you also consider a debate a fight, in your next breath you've slyly avoided any foundation for seeking truth. From your posting you seem like a reasonable person, however, sadly, you now place yourself in the category of those who prove that it's much more difficult to hide their ignorance than it is to acquire knowledge.
the dark
New member
Pissing into the winds around these parts, my friend!
Just a couple of questions for you.
Since the "Off topic" thread is just a single thread where anything NON-gun related can be found, why are you being so pigheaded about hanging out and insulting the readers that want to be in this thread with this topic?
If you have an inherent lack of understanding of God and his teachings, which by your statement and consistant hurling of insults would imply, when you found it was a religious oriented thread why wouldn't you just leave? Have you always drawn attention to yourself by insulting something you know nothing of?
What makes you think you are one of the "normal people"? So far in this thread you are the abnormal one.
Religion is one of the hot topics along with politics. If you don't agree with a post, fine. It is your right to have whatever opinion you hold. But if you want to be considered any where near intelligent or responsible, come in with a good counterpoint and argue your stance.
Everyone take from the Bible what they will. Evidently in your bible, being a jackass towards others is okay. And why is it you seem to make it a personal vendetta of yours to stop all the religious discussions and have gone as far as to request Luke start to ban religious topics.
I'm just asking.
Seeya
New member
No lamb here! I fight and win! I don't start a fight! I finish them! You were out gunned the second you opened mouth and inserted foot! You have yet to acknowledge that this is the "Off Topic" section and anything goes for subject matter.
Let me know when you want to try and finish one. Boy
Oldgrunt
Well-known member
Seeya: I know what you are trying to say here but let's not start any bravado. Scvette could move on to a gun forum but he chooses to stay here to needle us "wackos." Let's not get down to that level. As the old saying goes, we will keep on keeping on with our posts. If he wants to interject something, he will, just to get someone's goat but it isn't worth having a lot of BS spread around. After all, he is the interloper in any religious discussions, not us. Possibly, he might have something interesting to say ever once in a while so let's keep it cool.
gunnerbob
PEW Professional
Ringo, I don't take your comments as disrespectful. I, at current, haven't found sufficient truth for me to put my "faith" or belief in a Christian God... or any "personal God"... I am using, shall we say... my "God" given ability to think critically. I am unsure of where my research will lead me, in terms of belief... you have been working on yours for a long time. Me, only a few years of true "soul searching" shall I say. I don't throw out the "evidence" of the Christian God... I examine it, research it, acquire all information for/against, and then try to formulate a belief. There have been as many cases where you tell me I am disregaurding the truth... I can say the same for you. But, your mind and faith are stone... I respect you for that Ringo, I truly do sir. I said I didn't want to debate the matter, I didn't imply that in any way but that... a debate. Not b/c I will refuse to believe, but b/c there will be no point... I won't be able to find my "faith" here on USA Carry... I can only do that inside myself.
I respect your belief Ringo, and everyone else here... even if I disagree. In the end, only I will have to answer for myself... don't worry yourself about me.
Good day Ringo
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