Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

[antietam]

Good stuff!

 

[antietam]

Knowing where (what state, at least) someone is from who's posting in this thread can make a tremendous difference. Some of the people here are posting from Liberal socialist states with gun laws that would make any Eastern European feel at home. Others are posting from states where most of the original 2nd Amendment is still in effect. There are states where the State Highway Patrol have a national reputation as jack-booted thugs and states where the Highway Patrol actually behaves as peace officers who respect the average citizen's rights and the citizen as well.

Here in Missouri, with the exception of a few notorious St. Louis suburban villages, the police are generally supportive of citizen CCW. There is no requirement or reason to volunteer the information that one is exercising one's rights unless the officer specifically asks; then the law requires that one tell the officer that one has a CCW and/or is armed. Most often those cops who do ask are employed by localities with a reputation/record of police abuse of citizens in the form of speed traps, arbitrary confiscations of property, etc.

Other states require that the officer be told one has a CCW as soon as he approaches the car. And still other states such as New Jersey or Massachusetts have police and attitudes that would do Nazi Germany or the old Soviet Union proud. As a former OTR trucker, I don't have the highest opinion of the State Patrol in Ohio, Tennessee, or Virginia, either. There, should I be unfortunate enough to actually visit those states, I'd probably inform up front and have the K-Y jelly handy for the subsquent TSA-like experience. (Well, not New Jersey or Massachusetts--my CCW would not be valid there so I simply cannot imagine ever even entering those states.)

My point is that knowing one's location or at least one's home state is a helpful bit of information in evaluating the opinions expressed in this thread.

Your generalizations are right on and we all generalize. I would add "age" to the formula, not from a LEO qualification standpoint, but philosophical. After all, we're talking about LEO attitudes about CCW; a mix of life experience, politics and more. Those over fifty-five have seen astonishing social changes and trends, most terrible for the long term, since the sixties. The older this nation gets the more diluted the concept of freedom becomes and the less understood and appreciated the crux of that freedom, the Constitution. I'm shocked at the frivolous jabs some spew forth in the forums at those whom they perceive as "constitutionalists," as if that's bad. Younger LEOs undoubtedly are products of a weaker society and harbor an inferior understanding of freedom, generally speaking.
I hope I didn't drift too much from topic in this thread. But brolin1911a1's point about LEO attitudes varying by geography is excellent and often overlooked - so is "age" too often overlooked.

 

[S&W645]

do you understand the sign??? if the mall owner doesnt want to to ccw on their property why do you ignore it?? would you want someone on your property who had something you didnt want there??

you ignore it because some people got other people with guns to make the mall owner comply with how others want to operate their own property??

Because in some states, if it isn't posted correctly, it has no force of law. And his carrying would still be following the law.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

Hello all.

Yes, I inform either way. Its a personal decision.
We have to inform if we are carrying, but dont have to if we're not...go figure.
I guess we're supposed to leave the LEO guessing if we're just not carrying or if we're hiding something. Im more worried if I wasnt carried and the LEO having to wonder whats up.

Not that I go anywhere without my Ruger anyway.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

should you need to tell an officer?? regardless of state law??

isnt the post about whether one should inform an officer..not what the existing law is???

why should that info have to be told?? if you wanted to kill the cop you wouldnt tell them anyway...you would just kill them.

Good points.
The law simply shouldnt require notification. We're good guys.

But while it does require me to notify when carrying, I will notify when Im not simply because I dont want some newbie LEO gettin all twitchy on me.
We had a case of that about 25 years ago in Lima, Ohio where a fresh trooper got a little excited during a traffic stop over a blown tire.
Id prefer not having him going for his gun

 

[mrjam2jab]

Hello all.

Yes, I inform either way. Its a personal decision.
We have to inform if we are carrying, but dont have to if we're not...go figure.
I guess we're supposed to leave the LEO guessing if we're just not carrying or if we're hiding something. Im more worried if I wasnt carried and the LEO having to wonder whats up.

Not that I go anywhere without my Ruger anyway.

If you're not carrying why would you worry about it?

 

[Treo]

Hello all.

Yes, I inform either way. Its a personal decision.
We have to inform if we are carrying, but dont have to if we're not...go figure.
I guess we're supposed to leave the LEO guessing if we're just not carrying or if we're hiding something. Im more worried if I wasnt carried and the LEO having to wonder whats up.

Not that I go anywhere without my Ruger anyway.

That makes sense to me if you're not carrying it's a non issue.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

should you need to tell an officer?? regardless of state law??

isnt the post about whether one should inform an officer..not what the existing law is???

why should that info have to be told?? if you wanted to kill the cop you wouldnt tell them anyway...you would just kill them.

Good points.
The law simply shouldnt require notification. We're good guys.

But while it does require me to notify when carrying, I will notify when Im not simply because I dont want some newbie LEO gettin all twitchy on me.
We had a case of that about 25 years ago in Lima, Ohio where a fresh trooper got a little excited during a traffic stop over a blown tire.
Id prefer not having him going for his gun

 

[Ruger357SP101]

That makes sense to me if you're not carrying it's a non issue.

personally I wish theyd be consistent and just remove the requirement entirely.
If Im a bad guy Im not going to tell the cop anything.
If Im a good guy Im not going to hurt anyone anyway.
The requirement is fairly ridiculous as it really doesnt do anything but give the few bad cops out there a good way to abuse their authority by claiming someone didnt notify...or do so quickly enough.
We have to do it fairly promptly here.
One guy was arrested because it wasnt 'quick enough' according to the arresting officer.
Theoretically 10 seconds could be seen as not being quick enough if you get a bad cop or one in a mood.

 

[Treo]

personally I wish theyd be consistent and just remove the requirement entirely.
If Im a bad guy Im not going to tell the cop anything.
If Im a good guy Im not going to hurt anyone anyway.
The requirement is fairly ridiculous as it really doesnt do anything but give the few bad cops out there a good way to abuse their authority by claiming someone didnt notify...or do so quickly enough.
We have to do it fairly promptly here.
One guy was arrested because it wasnt 'quick enough' according to the arresting officer.
Theoretically 10 seconds could be seen as not being quick enough if you get a bad cop or one in a mood.

Are you from Ohio?

 

[Golden Eagle]

If you're not carrying why would you worry about it?

I'm assuming Ruger357SP101 might be from Mich like me. Twice I've 'not' informed because I wasn't carrying and the LEO comes back to my car with his hand on his gun. So I always start with "I have a pistol license and I am (or am not) carrying. In that order!

 

[Treo]

I'm assuming Ruger357SP101 might be from Mich like me. Twice I've 'not' informed because I wasn't carrying and the LEO comes back to my car with his hand on his gun. So I always start with "I have a pistol license and I am (or am not) carrying. In that order!

I was thinking Ohio because there was a much publicized case there in which the permitee was arrested for not informing "soon enough" even though the informed W/in 51 seconds after being told repeatedly by the arresting officer to "shut up"

If I were going to inform (no legal requirement here) I wouldn't do so verbally, too much chance for a missunderstnding. I'd just hand over the permit

 

[Ruger357SP101]

Are you from Ohio?

yep.
We're still working out the kinks

 

[Ruger357SP101]

I'm assuming Ruger357SP101 might be from Mich like me. Twice I've 'not' informed because I wasn't carrying and the LEO comes back to my car with his hand on his gun. So I always start with "I have a pistol license and I am (or am not) carrying. In that order!

Ohio.
But thats pretty much how I do it.
I always carry but in an odd case that I wasnt I still inform them because they already know I have the permit.
I dont want some cop wondering if Im not carrying....or AM carrying and Im just not telling him for some reason.
These guys deal with a lot of crap during traffic stops. I certainly dont want to add to the tension if I can help it.
Twitchy cops arent good for anybody.

 

[antietam]

Hello all.

Yes, I inform either way. Its a personal decision.
We have to inform if we are carrying, but dont have to if we're not...go figure.
I guess we're supposed to leave the LEO guessing if we're just not carrying or if we're hiding something. Im more worried if I wasnt carried and the LEO having to wonder whats up.

Not that I go anywhere without my Ruger anyway.

You're licensed in a state making preemptive disclosure mandatory? Then follow the law. But some with law degrees have indicated that even those state laws would collapse if sufficiently challenged in higher courts. This thread has dealt with do tell or don't tell even when not compelled by law to do so.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

You're licensed in a state making preemptive disclosure mandatory? Then follow the law. But some with law degrees have indicated that even those state laws would collapse if sufficiently challenged in higher courts. This thread has dealt with do tell or don't tell even when not compelled by law to do so.

I do know we're always working on changing the more asinine parts of the law here.
Right now they are, yet again, trying to get the parts changed where, like today, Im going to have to disarm to go into Red Lobster, because I cant carry if they even serve any type of alcohol.
And also the manner in which the gun is carried in a vehicle.
Frankly that one confuses me. I mean, when it first passed here we complained because we had to move the gun so that it was not concealed while we were driving, then we'd have to conceal it again when getting out of the car.
The argument was that there was too much handling of the firearm and it could cause an accident.
Ok. Makes sense.
But we're now arguing that we should be able to keep the gun in any manner in the car at all, rather than the limits in the present law.
But...if we dont just keep the gun concealed while we're driving, and we have to REconceal it when we get out of the car...arent we now arguing against the logic we used in the first case ????


The laws here definitely need tweaked some.
I feel that the 'timely notification' aspect is where some abuse by those few bad cops out there could occur. If anything was changed, I think that and the restaurant areas are where Id like to see a change.
Remove the notification issue entirely. It simply isnt necessary and can cause law abiding citizens to become 'criminals' based on the scenario and the LEO involved.

 

[Lucenut]

Constitutional carry!

I have 2 words for ya CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY!

 

[Treo]

I have 2 words for ya CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY!

Alaska has Constitutional Carry & a required to inform law.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I have 2 words for ya CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY!

Constitutional Carry really has nothing to do with being a polite and responsible citizen, putting the officer at ease, and making sure they go home at night safe to their families...

but, then again, neither does telling the officer about my lawfully carried firearm.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

Alaska has Constitutional Carry & a required to inform law.

Which I'd be fine with.
LEO's are often much more friendly if they know you arent trying to hide anything.
Theyre just men like every other man who dont want to be shot and killed.