What Would You Say

I could open carry, but choose not. I've seen others open carry (WalMart comes to mind), but I felt no desire to converse with them. I don't think many people want to challenge a person carrying a weapon. I just keep an eye on them, take care of my business and leave.
If someone did ask me, my response would be "do you need one?" as I draw my cell phone.
 
I just keep an eye on them, take care of my business and leave

So you see two people in WalMart that are doing exactly the same thing - shopping. They are dressed alike, act alike in every respect except one person has a pistol in a holster on their belt and the other does not. So, it's the person whose gun that you CAN see that you are going to "keep an eye on"? Because the person who might be hiding a gun is "safer"? How can we, as the pro-gun crowd expect the anti-s to stop treating guns as objects worthy of suspicion by themselves when you do it yourself?
 
So you see two people in WalMart that are doing exactly the same thing - shopping. They are dressed alike, act alike in every respect except one person has a pistol in a holster on their belt and the other does not. So, it's the person whose gun that you CAN see that you are going to "keep an eye on"? Because the person who might be hiding a gun is "safer"? How can we, as the pro-gun crowd expect the anti-s to stop treating guns as objects worthy of suspicion by themselves when you do it yourself?

Who said the person who might be hiding a gun is safer?
If you want to challenge my ideas, please do, but when you attribute thought, ideas, or emotions to me that are not mine it feels more like an attack than a reasonable question that might lead to debate.
In a state where obtaining a concealed carry permit isn't overly difficult, it is my belief that someone that is open carrying probably has an agenda and very likely wants to be challenged. I have no idea how they, or the person issuing the challenge might react, but we all know conflict can escalate out of control. The person concealing is not nearly as likely to be confronted, so doesn't require "keeping an eye on".
I can't watch everybody in the WalMart store, so I keep an eye on those closest to me and prioritize them through risk assessment.
I do not count myself as "pro gun". I carried, and used, weapons in the military and I'd just as soon not have to carry one ever again. In a society where people are being killed in church, at work, and in their own homes I will carry in order to protect life.
 
it is my belief that someone that is open carrying probably has an agenda and very likely wants to be challenged. I have no idea how they, or the person issuing the challenge might react, but we all know conflict can escalate out of control.

I open carry because I do NOT want to be challenged. It's interesting that you said in your first post, "I don't think many people want to challenge a person carrying a weapon." And you would be correct. And included in those "many people" are the usual criminals who are looking for an easy target - not a challenge. And that, my friend, is the advantage that I take advantage of.
 
It does sound contradictory, doesn't it. In the first case I was thinking of other shoppers, in the latter store management. In any case, I do profile and prioritize everybody around me. I have seen some guys carrying concealed (yes, I can sometimes spot them) that I would place higher on my radar than someone exercising their OC right - based solely on my biases and feelings.
I've seen too many news reports of people being relieved of their open carry weapon by the bad guy.
In my mental rehearsal, the BG(s) enter with their weapons concealed, identify guards or other people with weapons, and target them first. Fact is, in just about any scenario I can think of the baddy has his weapon out and ready to use long before me. My task is to survive long enough for them to turn their back on me. In no case do I want to appear as a threat.
By the way, when I state that I think OC is dangerous, etc., and state my reasons for thinking that way, it is not to infer that I know better than anyone else, or that my way is the only way. I understand we all have our own logic for doing the things we do. My bride and I even wash dishes in a different order, her way will never make sense to me and vice versa.
 
I've seen too many news reports of people being relieved of their open carry weapon by the bad guy.

Really? I would be interested in interested in seeing all those reports of people being relieved of their open carry weapon by bad guys. I sure haven't seen more than about 1 per year, and some of those are pretty darn sketchy, like "I was standing outside my motel room at 2 am when....."

In my mental rehearsal, the BG(s) enter with their weapons concealed, identify guards or other people with weapons, and target them first. Fact is, in just about any scenario I can think of the baddy has his weapon out and ready to use long before me.

I think the key here is the words "mental rehearsal". Mental rehearsal is fine. But your mental rehearsal just does not play out in real life. In the common convenience store scenarios, real life analysis indicates that the bad guys actually case the place first and wait for an opportunity when the clerk is alone to rob the place.

My task is to survive long enough for them to turn their back on me. In no case do I want to appear as a threat.
By the way, when I state that I think OC is dangerous, etc., and state my reasons for thinking that way, it is not to infer that I know better than anyone else, or that my way is the only way. I understand we all have our own logic for doing the things we do. My bride and I even wash dishes in a different order, her way will never make sense to me and vice versa.

I prefer to base my defensive behavior upon historical evidence of what happens in real life rather than theories created within "mental rehearsals". But each to their own.... I just prefer to present facts rather than theories so that people can make intelligent decisions rather than following blindly theories based upon nothing more than "mental rehearsals" and opinions based upon personal prejudices. For example:

Link Removed

"In 85% of the robberies which occurred, no customers were present at the inception of the crime and there was not a second clerk in the store. The scenario which developed repeatedly within the data analysis was that a perspective robber would enter the store and browse up and down the ailses until any present customers would leave before attempting the robbery. Of the remaining 15%, a second clerk was present in 8%, and a customer was present in an addition 7% at the inception of the robbery."

Quite a different picture than the robber busting through the door with gun drawn looking for armed persons to shoot first.

Forbes Welcome

"Whereas gun control proponents often argue that having a gun put people at risk because a criminal will take it away and use it against them, it seems the reality is more often to be the reverse situation. The Cato data contains only 11 stories out of 4,699 where a criminal took a gun away from a defender, but 277 where the intended victim disarmed the bad guy, although the authors acknowledge that these event reports may be printed more frequently due to newsworthiness."

11 out of 4,699 cases of the victim being disarmed by the criminal. Hmmm... guess when you say you hear about all these news stories of guns being taken from open carriers, it must ALL of those 11 out of 4,699, eh? Which is 0.2%. Guess it is a good thing the other 4,688 were carrying concealed?

Again, just separating the myths from the facts here.
 
You say "mental rehearsal" like it's a bad thing. As a former motorcycle safety instructor I taught "previsualization" as a skill used to condition our responses to various situations. Drills aboard ship are another form of this kind of thinking. If you don't "mentally rehearse" possible scenarios, you are going to be in trouble.
As for people that have been relieved of their weapons, a simple Google search will produce verified news reports. Are there a blue million of them? Not that I am aware. To me, one case is one too many, and I am able to learn from it.
If you want to strap on a hog leg and parade up and down the WalMart aisles to intimidate any potential threats, be my guest. Personally, I had my fill of killing while active duty and as a civilian at the Pentagon and choose not to call attention to myself, regardless of the potential outcomes.
 
You say "mental rehearsal" like it's a bad thing. As a former motorcycle safety instructor I taught "previsualization" as a skill used to condition our responses to various situations. Drills aboard ship are another form of this kind of thinking. If you don't "mentally rehearse" possible scenarios, you are going to be in trouble.

Drills and rehearsals should be preparation for what happens in reality, though. Your scenario of criminals entering with guns drawn looking for Joe Civilians carrying guns to shoot first (not security guards and not police officers) just has not, historically, happened in real life. What does happen in real life?

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Gun Owner Saves Lives In The Richmond VA Golden Market Shooting

As for people that have been relieved of their weapons, a simple Google search will produce verified news reports. Are there a blue million of them? Not that I am aware. To me, one case is one too many, and I am able to learn from it.

Gun Stolen in Armed Robbery. Concealed Carry Fail? - The Truth About Guns
Conceal And Carry Holder Robbed With His Own Gun « WCCO | CBS Minnesota
GUN WATCH: OH:Concealed Carry Fail; Rapist Disarms Realtor

and likely carrying concealed, not confirmed:
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2015/04/oh-another-concealed-carry-failure-gun.html

If you want to strap on a hog leg and parade up and down the WalMart aisles to intimidate any potential threats, be my guest. Personally, I had my fill of killing while active duty and as a civilian at the Pentagon and choose not to call attention to myself, regardless of the potential outcomes.

Why can't I just go down to WalMart to shop? That's what I go to WalMart to do. There is one difference between my actions carrying a gun and the concealed carry guy's actions carrying his gun: the location of a few millimeters of cloth. Mine is tucked in behind my gun, his is over his gun. That's it. All I'm doing is shopping. It is you who is coming up with all these images and fantasies of me "strapping on a hog leg and parading up and down the WalMart aisles." I will never know how many petty criminals have seen my gun and decided to wait a few minutes for me to leave or they go down the street a block and pick another target whom isn't displaying the ability to shoot them when they attack. But if just one criminal has in the past, that's a win. It's just a win that I will never know about.

In real life, people mention my gun to me about twice a month. Usually it's a positive mention. "Thanks for carrying!" "Glad to see someone who is willing to defend their family!" "What are the laws, do you have to have a permit to carry a gun?" About once a year I get a negative reaction to the gun. And 95% of those have been from concealed carry only snobs who can't resist the urge to tell me they have a concealed pistol license, they carry their gun concealed, and so should I.
 
I feel no obligation to correct other people's ignorance based upon making an assumption of what information I think they may or may not be seeking. I answered truthfully the question that he asked. I've had one skipper fired for having drunken poker parties at their homes and then covering up for one or more officers getting DUIs on the way home from them. I don't always consider what my skippers do to be the correct thing to do or answer to give.

Hence the context mentioned on my reply.

No one would assume you as a Naval Officer (unless on duty uniform), nevertheless when carrying a firearm (OC for the most part and circumstances) while in civilian clothing, the first thought is to relate you with LE as most people are blatantly ignorant of firearm laws.

When the question "are you an officer" is posed, it'll be way out of the park to relate that to "naval officer," instead of LE.

I don't tell anyone in the streets I'm an officer unless the conversation is military related because I am not unless the military is part of the circumstances/conversation.

Myself when asked, "no I am not, I'm just a regular person as you are carrying a gun legally and so should you."
 
In a state where obtaining a concealed carry permit isn't overly difficult, it is my belief that someone that is open carrying probably has an agenda and very likely wants to be challenged. I have no idea how they, or the person issuing the challenge might react, but we all know conflict can escalate out of control. The person concealing is not nearly as likely to be confronted, so doesn't require "keeping an eye on".
.

Your assumptions, your take on the situation -- all can be challenged or none can be taken seriously but respected.
 

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