Today
- Thread starter sig p6
- Start date
In Virginia the firearm does not necessarily have to be withdrawn from the holster for a brandishing charge. Bring you holstered pistol to Virginia and I will let yourself prove it to yourself.
bran•dish (ˈbræn dɪʃ)
v.t.
1. to shake, wave, or display, esp. threateningly or ostentatiously, as a weapon; flourish.
Just FYI courts in Virginia use definitions of terms to prosecute
Do you understand the definition of "display"? Okay...no you don't. If I own a curio shop and I have an 18th century Chinese vase sitting on a shelf would that be considered displaying a vase. I am trying to sell the vase...that would be the purpose. Now then for a little pop quiz...ready...here we go...If I display my holstered firearm to another person with the intention of inducing fear in that other person would that fall under the category of "display" as well?
So come on down to Virginia (or up to Virginia), bring your little holstered pistol and I will show you that you will get charged with brandishing without ever withdrawing your little pistol from its little holster. You will be more than welcome to be the first guinea pig to test the Virginia law. We here in Virginia welcome all the appeals you can afford to make.
If you do not understand how law operates be careful about making claims. You could get someone in serious trouble. I do know a person that was convicted of brandishing without having drawn his weapon. That was just about 1 year ago. Please learn the meaning behind "intent". It could keep you out of trouble.
No misundertanding at all if you had done that in Down Town Helena you would be guilty of "Assault with a weapon"
BC1
,
Yup. We see it in the news all the time. If you use a gun in self defense, even if you're 100% correct it will likely ruin your life. Thus I prefer to avoid and disengage whenever possible. Last thing I want is that conflict. Doesn't matter to me if the other party thinks I'm a wimp. I gave him his life but he's to stupid to know that.
Agree with much of what's been said. Carrying gives us a little extra confidence, so we need to be extra careful not to threaten someone unless we're threatened first. The guy's intent all along might have been to ask you when the bar opened - and that shouldn't have bothered you as much as it did - especially since you had your gun on you.
I had a similar situation a month or so ago when my girlfriend and I were leaving a restaurant. I got in my car and rolled down the windows while she was still walking towards it. A street guy with a back pack comes to my window extends his hand almost inside my window and says 'Hi , I'm not trying to sell you anything...' I just looked at him and said, "Sorry, I can't help you". He responded, "You don't even know what I want." And I repeated, "I can't help you." He walked off and shouted, "Fu.. you" as he did so. And soon he was talking to a family outside of their car who were willing to listen, or didn't know how to tell someone 'leave me alone'. My point is, I didn't use my gun to deal with the situation, but I had it on me as a back up if it became necessary.
I try to assume people are normal, innocent people until they prove they're not. The guy was a street guy and could have been a bad guy. But, until he proved differently I assumed he was a guy out trying to make a buck. I don't like pan handlers and street guys like the one who approached me in my car, but times are hard and they have the right to try to give me their pitch just as I have the right to tell them to get lost.
As far as the guy who was outside your car trying to ask you a question thru your closed window - he might have wanted directions, he could have needed help, he might have wanted to let you know you left the gas cap off your car - could have been a number of things. You got a gun on you - give him the chance to be a guy who just needs help, or who might even want to help you. Or he might have been a drunk or a guy needing his next fix. God help him, he certainly doesn't need getting shot by you.
I had a similar situation a month or so ago when my girlfriend and I were leaving a restaurant. I got in my car and rolled down the windows while she was still walking towards it. A street guy with a back pack comes to my window extends his hand almost inside my window and says 'Hi , I'm not trying to sell you anything...' I just looked at him and said, "Sorry, I can't help you". He responded, "You don't even know what I want." And I repeated, "I can't help you." He walked off and shouted, "Fu.. you" as he did so. And soon he was talking to a family outside of their car who were willing to listen, or didn't know how to tell someone 'leave me alone'. My point is, I didn't use my gun to deal with the situation, but I had it on me as a back up if it became necessary.
I try to assume people are normal, innocent people until they prove they're not. The guy was a street guy and could have been a bad guy. But, until he proved differently I assumed he was a guy out trying to make a buck. I don't like pan handlers and street guys like the one who approached me in my car, but times are hard and they have the right to try to give me their pitch just as I have the right to tell them to get lost.
As far as the guy who was outside your car trying to ask you a question thru your closed window - he might have wanted directions, he could have needed help, he might have wanted to let you know you left the gas cap off your car - could have been a number of things. You got a gun on you - give him the chance to be a guy who just needs help, or who might even want to help you. Or he might have been a drunk or a guy needing his next fix. God help him, he certainly doesn't need getting shot by you.
JCliff
New member
SigP6, this is not meant as piling on, but as further discussion of your event.
.
Choosing to get out of your locked car and confront this individual was a mistake, under the circumstances you described. It was at that moment that you maximized the exposure of yourself and your son to the potential threat. Just driving away would have been the best choice. If blocked by traffic and you are uncomfortable with how the situation is developing, stay in your closed/locked car and call (or have your passenger call) 911. Unblock your vehicle if possible (change lanes, turn right on red, back up, etc…). Start beeping your horn. Prepare yourself mentally to access your firearm.
.
Outside the home, in most states and most circumstances going for your gun without a clearly articulable imminent fear of death or maiming can land you in a lot of very serious legal hot water, even if your firearm never actually leaves the holster. You cannot threaten deadly force just because you are uncomfortable. If you are uncomfortable, GET OUT OF THERE!
.
Wisconsin does not have a statute that specifically addresses “brandishing.” I have had discussions with a Wisconsin attorney and with Wisconsin law enforcement officers relating to this topic. Here are a few Wisconsin statutes whose violation you could possibly be charged with:
.
941.20 Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon.
(1) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:
(a) Endangers another's safety by the negligent operation or handling of a dangerous weapon.
.
941.30 Recklessly endangering safety.
(1) FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY. Whoever recklessly endangers another's safety under circumstances which show utter disregard for human life is guilty of a Class F felony.
(2) SECOND-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY. Whoever recklessly endangers another's safety is guilty of a Class G felony.
.
947.01 Disorderly conduct.
(1) Whoever, in a public or private place, engages in violent, abusive, indecent, profane, boisterous, unreasonably loud or otherwise disorderly conduct under circumstances in which the conduct tends to cause or provoke a disturbance is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor.
.
If your local DA has decided he wants to make an example of somebody, you will be put through the washer and come out wet and wrung out financially and emotionally even if you manage to avoid a conviction. None of what I’ve opined here should be taken as legal advice, but only as food for thought. Admittedly, in my non-attorney opinion regarding the circumstances you described, I think the reckless endangering felony charges would be a stretch (not a stretch at all though if you actually were to come out of the holster…). But the class A or B misdemeanor might not be so hard, and would almost certainly result in the revocation of your CC license. Why risk the legal jeopardy unnecessarily? Flee from trouble or impending trouble anytime you possibly can. Use or threaten to use your firearm as a LAST resort.
.
Choosing to get out of your locked car and confront this individual was a mistake, under the circumstances you described. It was at that moment that you maximized the exposure of yourself and your son to the potential threat. Just driving away would have been the best choice. If blocked by traffic and you are uncomfortable with how the situation is developing, stay in your closed/locked car and call (or have your passenger call) 911. Unblock your vehicle if possible (change lanes, turn right on red, back up, etc…). Start beeping your horn. Prepare yourself mentally to access your firearm.
.
Outside the home, in most states and most circumstances going for your gun without a clearly articulable imminent fear of death or maiming can land you in a lot of very serious legal hot water, even if your firearm never actually leaves the holster. You cannot threaten deadly force just because you are uncomfortable. If you are uncomfortable, GET OUT OF THERE!
.
Wisconsin does not have a statute that specifically addresses “brandishing.” I have had discussions with a Wisconsin attorney and with Wisconsin law enforcement officers relating to this topic. Here are a few Wisconsin statutes whose violation you could possibly be charged with:
.
941.20 Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon.
(1) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:
(a) Endangers another's safety by the negligent operation or handling of a dangerous weapon.
.
941.30 Recklessly endangering safety.
(1) FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY. Whoever recklessly endangers another's safety under circumstances which show utter disregard for human life is guilty of a Class F felony.
(2) SECOND-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY. Whoever recklessly endangers another's safety is guilty of a Class G felony.
.
947.01 Disorderly conduct.
(1) Whoever, in a public or private place, engages in violent, abusive, indecent, profane, boisterous, unreasonably loud or otherwise disorderly conduct under circumstances in which the conduct tends to cause or provoke a disturbance is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor.
.
If your local DA has decided he wants to make an example of somebody, you will be put through the washer and come out wet and wrung out financially and emotionally even if you manage to avoid a conviction. None of what I’ve opined here should be taken as legal advice, but only as food for thought. Admittedly, in my non-attorney opinion regarding the circumstances you described, I think the reckless endangering felony charges would be a stretch (not a stretch at all though if you actually were to come out of the holster…). But the class A or B misdemeanor might not be so hard, and would almost certainly result in the revocation of your CC license. Why risk the legal jeopardy unnecessarily? Flee from trouble or impending trouble anytime you possibly can. Use or threaten to use your firearm as a LAST resort.
New Threads
-
Recent TX Appeals Court declaration that ATF arm brace rule is unconstitutional
- Started by lw07
- Replies: 1
-
Hunter Constantine or Phlster Enigma, for running?
- Started by sigsag1
- Replies: 1
-
-
-
Members online
No members online now.