Texas SB 321 and Security.

[pocketdrummer]

Since I am a non-commissioned officer (security guard), I am not allowed to conceal my firearm on my person even though I have my CHL. However, my employer says I'm not allowed to leave it in my vehicle in the parking lot. This seems to directly interfere with the new SB 321 that passed Sep 2011 stating that employers are no longer allowed to prohibit employees from locking their firearm in their vehicle in the parking lot provided to employees by their employer.

Can someone shed some light on this issue? Is there some other loophole that allows them to prohibit me from concealing the weapon in my car in the parking lot?

Here's some sources of information:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/82R/billtext/html/SB00321F.htm
http://penalcode.austintexascriminaldefense.com/46.035.html

And, my interpretation of it (minus a lot of lawyer mumbo jumbo) is:

Sec 52.061: A public or private employer cannot prohibit an employee who lawfully possesses a firearm or ammunition from transporting or storing their firearm/ammo in a locked vehicle in a parking lot/garage provided to employees.

EXCEPTIONS:
Does not...
1. Allow a person with a CHL to carry where possession of a firearm is considered illegal. ie schools, federal buildings.

2. Apply to:
a) A vehicle owned by the employer
b) School District
c) Open-enrollment school
d) Private School
e) Property owned by a person, other than the employer, subject to a valid oil, gas, or mineral lease that prohibits the possession of firearms on property.
f) Property owned or leased by a chemical manufacturer / Oil and Gas Refiner blah blah explosive blah blah

B) Does not prohibit an employer from prohibiting an employee who can legally carry from possessing a firearm on the premises of the employers business.
{Premises defined in Section 46.035(f)(3))
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. *The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.*

 

[shaythorn01]

"Since I am a non-commissioned officer, I am not allowed to conceal my firearm on my person even though I have my CHL."
What does this mean? Non-commissioned officer in what organization?

 

[aj's 40 cal]

non comission means he is an un armed guard, he can go through the training required by the state to be an armed guard. Im about to go through said process once i get the go ahead from the company...

 

[Harepower]

He's in the Military? That's the NCO's I knew of.

 

[SR40c]

"Since I am a non-commissioned officer, I am not allowed to conceal my firearm on my person even though I have my CHL."
What does this mean? Non-commissioned officer in what organization?

Non-commissioned officers are higher ranking enlisted members of the military. For example, E-7 thru E-9 in the Navy are considered non-commissioned officers. These would be Chief, Senior Chief, and Master Chief Petty Officers. The other branches are similar but may vary in the range of what they consider an NCO (non-commissioned officer). That's what it means to me anyway, though my details may be a little off. My memory isn't what it used to be.

 

[pocketdrummer]

Sorry about the confusion, but no, I'm not in the military. It's what Texas calls the guards that aren't certified in carrying a weapon on duty. Non-Commissioned Officers (guards) can't carry a firearm at all. Commissioned Officers (guards) must open-carry but cannot carry concealed. Basically, if you're noncommissioned or commissioned, your CHL means nothing while on duty.

However, where I'm confused is whether it's ok to lock my firearm in my vehicle in the parking lot while on duty. This bill seems to say yes, but my employer says no. I'm trying to see if there's any legislation that says I can't.

If I can legally do so, then I'll ignore my employer and lock it in my car. I spend 9 hours and 2 car trips unarmed on work days. I'd like to minimize that to just the 9 hrs I'm doing security.

 

[kjmill60]

Non-Commissioned Officers (NCO's) in the military are ranked at Corporal and above in the enlisted ranks. Officers, 2LT and above are Comissioned hence the giving of the "Rank" of Lieutenant and above. As far as the leaving of a weapon in your car during work, I've always been of the mind that what people don't know wont hurt em!

 

[Wyldekard]

Sorry about the confusion, but no, I'm not in the military. It's what Texas calls the guards that aren't certified in carrying a weapon on duty. Non-Commissioned Officers (guards) can't carry a firearm at all. Commissioned Officers (guards) must open-carry but cannot carry concealed. Basically, if you're noncommissioned or commissioned, your CHL means nothing while on duty.

However, where I'm confused is whether it's ok to lock my firearm in my vehicle in the parking lot while on duty. This bill seems to say yes, but my employer says no. I'm trying to see if there's any legislation that says I can't.

If I can legally do so, then I'll ignore my employer and lock it in my car. I spend 9 hours and 2 car trips unarmed on work days. I'd like to minimize that to just the 9 hrs I'm doing security.

What is the risk to your continued employment if you point out the law to them? If the company you work for is aware of the law and the law states what you assert it does (I'm not casting doubt on your post, I just haven't verified it for myself) then what you really have to decide is if you want to take your situation through the legal system or not.

 

[spdracr39]

Worst case scenario is you would get fired for violating company policy but would get your unemployment because of wrongful dismissal.

 

[LkWd_Don]

Sorry about the confusion, but no, I'm not in the military. It's what Texas calls the guards that aren't certified in carrying a weapon on duty. Non-Commissioned Officers (guards) can't carry a firearm at all. Commissioned Officers (guards) must open-carry but cannot carry concealed. Basically, if you're noncommissioned or commissioned, your CHL means nothing while on duty.

However, where I'm confused is whether it's ok to lock my firearm in my vehicle in the parking lot while on duty. This bill seems to say yes, but my employer says no. I'm trying to see if there's any legislation that says I can't.

If I can legally do so, then I'll ignore my employer and lock it in my car. I spend 9 hours and 2 car trips unarmed on work days. I'd like to minimize that to just the 9 hrs I'm doing security.

I understand the concept of the Armed Private Security Officer (being Commissioned) and UnArmed Private Security Officer simply being a guard or (Non-Commissioned)
There are questions that the statute presents that you have not answered, in order for anyone to really give you an answer.
Your best bet really is to contact a Gun-Rights attorney in your area who would be fully qualified to answer this. But if you will answer the following we will see if we can get you close to your answer.
First, is are you going to be storing your firearm in your own personal vehicle or one being provided to you by your employer? If owned by your employer.. suck it up, the boss is right.
Second, if the parking lot/structure in which you are parking is leased by your employer and not owned by them or is it a public lot?
Last, is what the site you are guarding is? This maybe included in your answer to the second.

 

[taurus382]

I too and am a non-commissioned guard in Texas. If the property itself is not one specifically posted or prohitited - federal facility, military base, or secured area of an airport as examples - I don't worry about it. What my employer does not know does not hurt me. Why tell him or her you have a weapon if you are not using it in the scope and course of the job? Are employee vehicles subject to random search? (I have seen this at one federal facility I worked at in a non-security job.) There is a potential problem if you use your car for anything while you are on duty. I have had posts where I sat in my vehicle while observing the property. This puts one in a position of having a gun in possession during the course and scope of the job - a definite no-no according to regs. If you have a set post and don't use your car for breaks or anything, there should be no legal violation. Under Texas law you have a right to have the handgun in your vehicle when not on duty. I commute over an hour each way. I'm not leaving my gun at home. Remember! I am not giving legal advice, but a layman's opinion. Carry at your own risk or consult a good gun rights attorney!

 

[pocketdrummer]

I understand the concept of the Armed Private Security Officer (being Commissioned) and UnArmed Private Security Officer simply being a guard or (Non-Commissioned)
There are questions that the statute presents that you have not answered, in order for anyone to really give you an answer.
Your best bet really is to contact a Gun-Rights attorney in your area who would be fully qualified to answer this. But if you will answer the following we will see if we can get you close to your answer.
First, is are you going to be storing your firearm in your own personal vehicle or one being provided to you by your employer? If owned by your employer.. suck it up, the boss is right.
Second, if the parking lot/structure in which you are parking is leased by your employer and not owned by them or is it a public lot?
Last, is what the site you are guarding is? This maybe included in your answer to the second.

I would be storing it in my own vehicle.
I work for a Security company who's client is a call center. So, the parking lot is for security and the call center's personnel only (not for public).

 

[Skiluvr03]

We just went through this where I work and we told Management they were in violation of the law. We told them which law it was and asked them to look it up. We are now allowed to have weapons in our vehicles. I live in Oklahoma, 45 miles from Texas border.

 

[hogwylde]

Why don't you just store it in your car and be over it with it? Is he going to inspect your car to see if it's in there?

 

[LkWd_Don]

I would be storing it in my own vehicle.
I work for a Security company who's client is a call center. So, the parking lot is for security and the call center's personnel only (not for public).

Ok, your boss does not own that parking area and this does not say if that parking area is leased by or if it is dedicated space provided by the Client or if it is an area with its own security to where the boss or client may be reading S.B. No. 321 Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not: (2) apply to: (E) property owned or controlled by a person, other than the employer. Then when you add in from Texas Penal Code, Section 46.035 (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun (1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74,

With our not knowing what those Chapters refer to, I again will refer you to a Gun-Rights Attorney in your state to give you the straight scoop. Especially with those chapters being under (b) (1) and how further down the Penal Code it states, (g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), ~~ clipped for brevity~~ offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.

By your asking we know you are not looking to be a felon, so CYA and get the correct answer from a Lawyer.

 

[pocketdrummer]

Excerpt from www.tsra.com written by Alice Tripp, Legislative Director

"One important point to first understand is that the bill applies to all employees legally in possession of a firearm. Some have read the bill to apply only to Concealed Handgun Licensees, an interpretation easily invalidated by a quick read of the bill. The only exception is for a small group of clearly defined hazardous chemical facilities. Those facilities may limit firearm storage in their parking areas to those employees that possess a Concealed Handgun License.

The only employers not covered by the bill, who will retain the ability to adopt policies forbidding the storage of employee firearms in employer provided parking areas are public and private elementary, middle, and high schools, and private landowners leasing oil, gas, or mineral rights on their property."

Does this change anyone's mind?