School facilities: pick up/drop off

[Scaredfuzz]

Ok thanks, I was just checking to make sure no one had one of those "no wait, someone got arrested for that last year"/court case/published AG's opinion ect. Unfortunate thing about using Google right now is the words "washington" and "gun/gun laws" give me about 80 pages of articles about the gun control debate in D.C.

 

[jcreek]

After rereading the RCW this statement has been recanted

 

[NavyLCDR]

Like navyLCDR said, with a CPL there's no restriction on entering the building. I've done so many times to sign them in with the attendance office.

WRONG!!!! That is NOT what I said! IT IS ILLEGAL TO GO INSIDE THE SCHOOL BUILDING even with a CPL! I posted that there was nothing illegal about going in the portion that was used for CHURCH SERVICES. READ RCW 9.41.280 before you get arrested or someone else gets arrested following your advice!

RCW 9.41.280: Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities ? Penalty ? Exceptions.

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
(b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities. However, a person who is not a commissioned law enforcement officer and who provides school security services under the direction of a school administrator may not possess a device listed in subsection (1)(f) of this section unless he or she has successfully completed training in the use of such devices that is equivalent to the training received by commissioned law enforcement officers;
(c) Any person who is involved in a convention, showing, demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed;
(f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;
(h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local government agency.

 

[luv2shoot]

As I was reading this thread again, my eyes were drawn to "while being used exclusively by public or private schools." My local Boys & Girls Club operates at a former, but still public school district owned, middle school. I figured I would have to disarm then go in to get my kids. But now it seems I don't have to. The middle school is not used as a school and the B&GC is not a public or private school. Even if it were, it's not exclusively used for that. I'm shootin' from the hip here cause I don't have time right now to look at the whole section, but does this appear correct?

 

[jcreek]

Like navyLCDR said, with a CPL there's no restriction on entering the building. I've done so many times to sign them in with the attendance office.

WRONG!!!! That is NOT what I said! IT IS ILLEGAL TO GO INSIDE THE SCHOOL BUILDING even with a CPL! I posted that there was nothing illegal about going in the portion that was used for CHURCH SERVICES. READ RCW 9.41.280 before you get arrested or someone else gets arrested following your advice!

RCW 9.41.280: Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities ? Penalty ? Exceptions.

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
(b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities. However, a person who is not a commissioned law enforcement officer and who provides school security services under the direction of a school administrator may not possess a device listed in subsection (1)(f) of this section unless he or she has successfully completed training in the use of such devices that is equivalent to the training received by commissioned law enforcement officers;
(c) Any person who is involved in a convention, showing, demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed;
(f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;
(h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local government agency.

Ok what am I missing?

Subsection (3): Subsection (1) does not apply to (e): Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student.

Dropping off a student late requires signing them in with the attendance office. I see nothing restricting CPL holders from entering the building while doing this. I apologize if I was unclear but I only enter the building while dropping off/picking up a student.

 

[luv2shoot]

RCW 9.41.280: Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities ? Penalty ? Exceptions.

RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

(a) Any firearm;

==============

THE KEY WORDS up there are "onto" and "on."

Side note: I think another interesting bit is "while being used exclusively."

Thought: How is "areas of facilities" not redundant?? Moving on...

==============
....
(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(a) Any student or employee of a private military academy when on the property of the academy;

(b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities. However, a person who is not a commissioned law enforcement officer and who provides school security services under the direction of a school administrator may not possess a device listed in subsection (1)(f) of this section unless he or she has successfully completed training in the use of such devices that is equivalent to the training received by commissioned law enforcement officers;

(c) Any person who is involved in a convention, showing, demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed;

(d) Any person while the person is participating in a firearms or air gun competition approved by the school or school district;

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

(f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;

(g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or

(h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local government agency.
...

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
==============

SO WHAT HAPPENS in SubSec (6) is the KEY WORD "in." SubSec (1) says don't carry ON the premises then SubSec (3)(e) says okay for CPL to carry ON premises then SubSec (6) says CPL can't carry IN the buildings.

As much as I hate this stupid law, if you get caught carrying IN the building, you're toast.

 

[jcreek]

RCW 9.41.280: Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities ? Penalty ? Exceptions.

RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

(a) Any firearm;

==============

THE KEY WORDS up there are "onto" and "on."

Side note: I think another interesting bit is "while being used exclusively."

Thought: How is "areas of facilities" not redundant?? Moving on...

==============
....
(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(a) Any student or employee of a private military academy when on the property of the academy;

(b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities. However, a person who is not a commissioned law enforcement officer and who provides school security services under the direction of a school administrator may not possess a device listed in subsection (1)(f) of this section unless he or she has successfully completed training in the use of such devices that is equivalent to the training received by commissioned law enforcement officers;

(c) Any person who is involved in a convention, showing, demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed;

(d) Any person while the person is participating in a firearms or air gun competition approved by the school or school district;

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

(f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;

(g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or

(h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local government agency.
...

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
==============

SO WHAT HAPPENS in SubSec (6) is the KEY WORD "in." SubSec (1) says don't carry ON the premises then SubSec (3)(e) says okay for CPL to carry ON premises then SubSec (6) says CPL can't carry IN the buildings.

As much as I hate this stupid law, if you get caught carrying IN the building, you're toast.

Went back and read through it all again. After rereading for about the 30th time I saw that SubSec (6) does not apply to SubSec (3)(e). I therefore recant my previous statements and shall revise my practices. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[NavyLCDR]

RCW 9.41.280: Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities ? Penalty ? Exceptions.

RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

(a) Any firearm;

==============

THE KEY WORDS up there are "onto" and "on."

Side note: I think another interesting bit is "while being used exclusively."

Thought: How is "areas of facilities" not redundant?? Moving on...

There are three separate and distinct areas or premesis stated in subsection (1):

public or private elementary or secondary school premises
school-provided transportation
areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools

The first two are pretty clear. An example of "areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools." Let's say that one school district is hosting a band competition and they rent a local theater to hold the band competition in. While that theater is not normally a school, during the time it is rented and used by the school district it now becomes a "facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools" and firearms are prohibited at the theater during the competition just like on normal school premises.

 

[mikey]

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

Means no guns on property when there is a school function. "used exclusively by public or private schools" does not include churches, voting, civic functions, unless specifically outlined in city codes/ordinances.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

CPL or unloaded guns in opaque cases while picking up/dropping off.

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.

No guns in buildings, regardless of purpose on school grounds.

Now here's the kicker:

Gun-Free School Act (18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts | Title 18 - Crimes and Criminal Procedure | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute)

(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

Therefore, since federal law trumps state laws (when constitutional), it is legal to carry concealed pistols ON and IN school grounds/buildings if you possess a WA CPL.

Unless someone can show me where the RCW says a CPL holder cannot carry in a school, it's totally legal to carry in school buildings with a CPL.

Also, that means that weekend baseball, soccer, softball, football, etc. that aren't school activities, but not organized/affiliated with the school, but held on school property, you can carry open or concealed (w/ permit).

 

[jcreek]

@mikey if you want to try and play it that way best of luck. You will be arrested by state or local police, and charged under state law. Now if you want to appeal all the way up citing the supremacy clause you go right ahead lol.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Gun-Free School Act (18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts | Title 18 - Crimes and Criminal Procedure | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute)

(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

Therefore, since federal law trumps state laws (when constitutional), it is legal to carry concealed pistols ON and IN school grounds/buildings if you possess a WA CPL.

Unless someone can show me where the RCW says a CPL holder cannot carry in a school, it's totally legal to carry in school buildings with a CPL.

Also, that means that weekend baseball, soccer, softball, football, etc. that aren't school activities, but not organized/affiliated with the school, but held on school property, you can carry open or concealed (w/ permit).

I'm sorry, but I just don't see in the Federal statute that you quoted where it states that the Revised Code of Washington does not apply to CPL holders on school grounds. The only thing I see in the Federal statute that you quoted is that Subparagraph (A) of that specific statute does not apply to CPL holders on school grounds. Can you show us where that Federal law says that state law does not apply? No, you can't.

 

[BigDave55]

This is how I read it anyways, the pertaining RCW exempts a CPL holder from the prohibition of carrying a firearms on school grounds for the purpose of picking up and dropping off a student.

RCW 9.41.280 (3) Subsection (1)
(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools: (a) Any firearm)
of this section does not apply to:
(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

As for Federal Law, it is pertaining to effecting commerce, I do not see where the OP or the thread was discussing buying selling or transport of items for commerce.
Then exempts those with a CPL issued by the State.