School facilities: pick up/drop off


luv2shoot

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http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.280

RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.
...
(3)
(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
...


It's obvious that one can't enter a school building even with a CPL, but I'm wondering if one with a CPL, in possession and concealing, can exit their vehicle and occupy ANY SPACE on school premises but outside the buildings for the purpose of "picking up or dropping off a student."

Has anyone heard of any stories, case law, etc., where this has been an issue or clarified? Or is it just plain obvious and I'm overly concerned?

Thanks.
 

Specifically you cannot have a gun on school property. That being said the sidewalk and street surrounding the school is public property even though it is classified as a school zone. You can legally drop off and pick up on the street with no problem at all. Some think that if you have a permit and get stopped for a traffic infraction by a school you can go to jail. That is false.

Believe it or not you can open carry through a school zone because it is NOT school property. It is city property. I have done this with no issues. You just cannot have a weapon ON school property. But as we all know that doesn't work since kids do take guns and knives on school property. Just another feel warm and fuzzy law brought to you by the anti-gun folks.
 
Explain please

"Specifically you cannot have a gun on school property."

You seem to have a more restrictive read on this section. Can you explain how you come to that conclusion?

Part 1 of the RCW:

"(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools::"

Part 3:

"(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

...

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
..."

I see this as saying I can carry (with CPL) ON the premises as long as I'm picking up or dropping off a student.

Part 6:

"(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building."

This, of course, limits me to the outside.


Thanks.
 
Right here: (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools::"

Public or private School Property.
 
Right here: (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools::"

Public or private School Property.

Respectfully, read the first few words of subsection (3):
(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

When a CPL holder is picking up or dropping off a student, there is no prohibition on entering the building, either. In the process of picking up or dropping off a student, a CPL holder can carry ON school property and IN the buildings, just like anywhere else. For instance, my daughter gets sick and is waiting in the nurse's office.... with my CPL I am never required to disarm while retrieving her from the nurse's office to take her home.

Public school districts fall under state preemption and cannot enact firearms regulations more stringent than state law. Private schools can enact whatever rules they want to. Public universities prohibit firearms via Washington Administrative Codes - however, that does not make carrying a firearm at a public university a crime, it only makes it so they can forcibly remove you from university property under trespassing laws.

Firearms must also be prohibited in licensed daycare centers, to comply with the licensing requirements set forth in the Washington Administrative code as well.
 
"Specifically you cannot have a gun on school property."

You seem to have a more restrictive read on this section. Can you explain how you come to that conclusion?

Part 1 of the RCW:

"(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools::"

Part 3:

"(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

...

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
..."

I see this as saying I can carry (with CPL) ON the premises as long as I'm picking up or dropping off a student.

Part 6:

"(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building."

This, of course, limits me to the outside.


Thanks.

He is right in what he said. Sidewalks are not school property they are public even if they pass in front of a school building. Once your in their driveway you are now on their property and subject to all their rules.
 
Section 6

"When a CPL holder is picking up or dropping off a student, there is no prohibition on entering the building, either."

I had thought that would make sense up to 3.e. (even though I've never done it) but then I saw 6. Section 6 only allows for exceptions provided in 3.b., 3.c., 3.f., and 3.h., which would then not allow a CPL holder to possess in the buildings. That's how it looks to me.

---

Previously from redboneshadow: "Believe it or not you can open carry through a school zone because it is NOT school property."

Doesn't the GFSZA of 1995 outlaw this? I don't OC but have also not had an occasion to have a loaded firearm in a vehicle in the 1000' zone, so I'm still looking at the laws on this one.

Thanks.
 
"When a CPL holder is picking up or dropping off a student, there is no prohibition on entering the building, either."

I had thought that would make sense up to 3.e. (even though I've never done it) but then I saw 6. Section 6 only allows for exceptions provided in 3.b., 3.c., 3.f., and 3.h., which would then not allow a CPL holder to possess in the buildings. That's how it looks to me.

---

Previously from redboneshadow: "Believe it or not you can open carry through a school zone because it is NOT school property."

Doesn't the GFSZA of 1995 outlaw this? I don't OC but have also not had an occasion to have a loaded firearm in a vehicle in the 1000' zone, so I'm still looking at the laws on this one.

Thanks.

You are correct. I was wrong. Inside the building is off limits while picking up or dropping of a student because of paragraph (6). Outside the vehicle is fine and legal, though.

The Federal GFSZA of 1995 does not apply to persons who are licensed to carry handguns by the state or subdivision of the state in which the school zone is located in.

United States Code: Title 18,922. Unlawful acts | LII / Legal Information Institute

(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—


(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
 
OC off school property

redboneshadow...

Did you mean a CPL holder can OC in the Zone legally?

When I think OC, I first assume unlicensed. That's because I think about OCing only when I'm out of my state. I don't OC in my state.

Thanks everyone for your input!
 
redboneshadow...

Did you mean a CPL holder can OC in the Zone legally?

Yes, that is correct. The CPL provides the exception to the 1000' Gun Free School Zone FEDERAL Law, so that law becomes completely inapplicable to a CPL holder - if their CPL was issued by the same state the school is in.

There is no 1000' School Zone state law in Washington. Only a prohibition against carrying on the actual premises of the school, anything outside the fence line, including the sidewalk, is not on the premises of the school.

Thus, with a CPL, open carry on the sidewalk off the premises of the school is legal in Washington, and on the premises of the school while picking up or dropping off a student (and during other exceptions) is lawful as well. Just not in the building, as someone corrected me.

When I think OC, I first assume unlicensed. That's because I think about OCing only when I'm out of my state. I don't OC in my state.

Thanks everyone for your input!

Why don't you open carry in Washington?
 
RCW 9.41.280: Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities

RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.
...
(3)
(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
...


It's obvious that one can't enter a school building even with a CPL, but I'm wondering if one with a CPL, in possession and concealing, can exit their vehicle and occupy ANY SPACE on school premises but outside the buildings for the purpose of "picking up or dropping off a student."

Has anyone heard of any stories, case law, etc., where this has been an issue or clarified? Or is it just plain obvious and I'm overly concerned?

Thanks.

i live in eastern washington. i have read and re-read the rcw. the section is entitled 'possession of dangeruous weapons on scchool facilities'. the law does not make any distinction between in a building or out. school facilities include gyms,school rooms.and parking lots among other things. i also checked with my lawyer and with a school board member. you may carry your gun onto and including parking lots and inside buildings IF AND ONLY IF you are picking up or dropping off a student. now i am talking about concealed carry. the law is somewhat vague about open carry under the same circumstances. but even if i could open carry while picking up or dropping off a student i would not. please no hate mail from open carry people. if someone saw you open carry your gun into a school and called leo something would hit the fan and every leo within a light-year would come. open carring on a public sidewalk in front of a school is a different matter. it is true that with a cpl you can carry open or concealed and be within both state a federal law on the sidewalk. but then again if someone called leo at the very least you would be detained for awhile. also a quirk in washington law allows loaded open carry without a permit but requires a cpl to have a loaded gun either open or concealed in a car. confusing? lastly i am not against open carry.
 
the law does not make any distinction between in a building or out.

The law does make a distinction:

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.

The picking up/dropping off students exception is 3(e).
 
RCW941.280 section(1) it is unlawful for a person to carry onto or possess on,public or private elememtary or secondary school premises,school provided transportation,or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools.... rcw 941. 280 section (3) reads subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to; (e)any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW941.70, or is exempt from the licenseing requirement by RCW041.060 while picking up or dropping off a student........ premises means building doesnt it?
 
RCW941.280 section(1) it is unlawful for a person to carry onto or possess on,public or private elememtary or secondary school premises,school provided transportation,or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools.... rcw 941. 280 section (3) reads subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to; (e)any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW941.70, or is exempt from the licenseing requirement by RCW041.060 while picking up or dropping off a student........ premises means building doesnt it?

Section (6) still stands by itself, however and is a completely separate prohibition than section (1). The exemption is (3)(e) does NOT apply to the separate and distinct prohibition contained in section (6):

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
 
i guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. someday somebody will test this one in court and it will be resolved.
 
i guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. someday somebody will test this one in court and it will be resolved.

I am failing to see any evidence presented as to why section (6) of the statute does not prohibit carrying firearms in a school building. Did I miss somewhere where you explained why paragraph (6) does not apply?
 
Sort of on topic

"RCW941.280 section(1) it is unlawful for a person to carry onto or possess on,public or private elememtary or secondary school premises,school provided transportation,or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools"

So if I have a Washington CCL, and my church meets in a school OR my church has a private school attached, I am legal to carry while attending church?

EDIT:

On second read I'm assuming the law is interpreted "public or private elememtary or secondary school premises", "school provided transportation", or "areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools"

That being said I should still be able to CC at a church that has a private school?
 
EDIT:

On second read I'm assuming the law is interpreted "public or private elememtary or secondary school premises", "school provided transportation", or "areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools"

That being said I should still be able to CC at a church that has a private school?

That's the way I read the statute. I would think, but this is only my opinion, I have no reference to back it up, that you would be able to carry in the areas of the church where church services were held, but that the areas that were dedicated to the private school would be off limits, except for outside the building when picking up and dropping off students by a CPL holder (and the other exceptions to the school law).

And here's one you might not be aware of: state licensed daycare centers must, as a condition of their license, prohibit firearms in the daycare center or they could lose their license. That requirement is contained in the Washington Administrative Code, not the Revised Code of Washington.
 

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