Recoil vs.Takedown ability


JanTeacher

New member

I would like to hear opinions and recommendations for particular concealed carry guns. Right now, I have a Kel-Tec P-32, but I feel safer with my Smith & Wesson 642 revolver, (won't jam but bulky), or even my Glock 9mm, (such a good rep for not jamming but awfully big for concealed carry on my person.
 

Perhaps you could be more specific as to what you want to know.

As for “takedown ability” hand gun stopping power is a myth. With almost any caliber handgun you will have to score multiple hits on your attacker to stop him.
 
Link Removed

Table gives you a good idea of how the slug will perform, but what isn't shown is the shooter's ability. Shot placement is key, caliber is irrelevant when you aren't making consistent hits to vital areas.
 
Simple physics, but one shot take down is pretty much of a myth, head shot maybe, accuracy and ability on your part is most important, practice, practice, move and shoot, shoot houses if available to you, carry the gun you will carry, shoot same and oh yea, more practice. Personally like my 1911 in 45. Peace, Love, Colt 45.
 
There is one shot you can make in which the receiver of said bullet will drop immediately... this is a shot to the spine. Mobsters used to use muzzled .22's to the back of the neck to take a guy out. So is the .22 the best choice out there? Hardly.

Shot placement, and energy of the round are the two most important factors.

Now, based on recoil, this becomes a personal decision as to which gun feels best to you and that you can control the best in order to get the shot placement you need.

+1 to tricolordad for the link.
 
I'm guessing most one-shot stops are because the BG gets shot once and doesn't want it to happen again, so he stops! The rest, like everyone said, is shot placement.
 
There is one shot you can make in which the receiver of said bullet will drop immediately... this is a shot to the spine. Mobsters used to use muzzled .22's to the back of the neck to take a guy out. So is the .22 the best choice out there? Hardly.

Shot placement, and energy of the round are the two most important factors.

Now, based on recoil, this becomes a personal decision as to which gun feels best to you and that you can control the best in order to get the shot placement you need.

+1 to tricolordad for the link.

What do you mean by "drop?" I think you should clarify. I shot to the spine in the lower back will definitely "drop" an attacker but it will not incapacitate him. A person unable to walk is still very able to shoot back. The only shot that instantly incapacitate an attacker is a shot to the brain stem or the top roughly 10% of the spine.

I agree with everything else you said and I'm sure you knew what you're talking about I just thought clarification was needed.
 
What do you mean by "drop?" I think you should clarify. I shot to the spine in the lower back will definitely "drop" an attacker but it will not incapacitate him. A person unable to walk is still very able to shoot back. The only shot that instantly incapacitate an attacker is a shot to the brain stem or the top roughly 10% of the spine.

I agree with everything else you said and I'm sure you knew what you're talking about I just thought clarification was needed.

You are making a particular point and I will be more specific. Getting shot in any part of the spine will make any person "drop". However, shot into the thoracic or lumbar section will more than likely just paralyze the person being shot. And while in considerable amount of pain, if the paralysis is only from the waist down (which is more likely in the lower parts of the spine), the gun shot recipient could indeed still return fire.

However, if the shot was to C1-C4 along the high cervical nerves, the person afflicted with the GSW will at minimum be paralyzed from the neck down and therefore "drop" immediately. However, with something as invasive as a GSW, will more than likely die quickly due to a number of reason: nerve communication that controls breathing, nerve communication that controls the heart, never communication from the brain to the rest of the body's functions.

If the shot was however, between C5-C8 in the neck, then more than likely there will be massive paralysis (neck down or upper body down). The other thing to consider with a shot in the neck, is that if the bullet doesn't hit the vertebrae squarely, the bullet can fragment. There are many vitals within the neck area (trachea, arteries, veins). Any of these being hit will usually cause fatality but NOT in a "drop" capacity as the OP was asking.

So, from this, what does a person defending himself with a firearm need to learn to do? As stated previously, be prepared to shoot CofM until the threat stops. I've known no one good enough at shooting, to be able to, under pressure in a life or death situation, place a well aimed shot to the C1-C4 High Cervical Nerve area, especially to a moving target. Therefore, multiple shots, CofM until the threat stops. If the CofM shots are doing nothing (person may be wearing body armor), then shoot to the ocular cavity. This is a boxed region from the eyebrows, eyes wide, down to the middle of the nose. Any higher and the bullet will ricochet upward, any lower and the bullet will miss the brain.

I know this is a rather gruesome response. However, to stop the threat of being killed, one needs to know where to place their shots.
 
CC guns tend to be a balance between accuracy and size. The smaller and lighter the gun, the more recoil and less accurate (shorter barrel length). If you are carrying IWB, I suggest the CZ 2075 RAMI, it handles recoil like no other and can get consistent 4 inch groupings at 25 yards (not bench rested). If you are looking for a lighter semi-auto that won't beat you up as you shoot, try the S&W Shield or the Baretta Nano. All the guns I mentioned work well in the 9 mm. The 40 cal is just too "snappy" to make it a comfortable shoot.

I prefer to pick a gun that I can shoot well vs a gun that makes a loud noise and doesn't hit anything, Not sure this helps you but that is my $0.02.
 
LOL. when you are being shot at, dodging blows or stabs, if you, with pistol, manage to hit the chest with half of your shots, and I DO mean at 6 ft or so, you will be doing as well as practically anyone on earth has ever proven that they could do, under similar circumstances, without armor, cover, and ear protection. The spine hit is out of the question, other than for a fluke hit. The brain is a MUCH larger target, and almost nobody recommends that you try for a head shot, altho a hit on the head that does NOT penetrate the brain is still MASSIVELY likely to render the "hittee" combat ineffective.
 
I would like to hear opinions and recommendations for particular concealed carry guns. Right now, I have a Kel-Tec P-32, but I feel safer with my Smith & Wesson 642 revolver, (won't jam but bulky), or even my Glock 9mm, (such a good rep for not jamming but awfully big for concealed carry on my person.

If you saw the dashcam footage of the recent roadside shootout in Oregon, it tells the tale. The OSP troop scored a hit to center mass with his M&P .40. The bad guy turned around and ran back to his car - probably didn't even know he had been hit at that point - and drove down the highway another half mile before pulling over and dying; officers found him slumped over the steering wheel, dead.

It's as true in defensive shooting as in real estate - location, location, location. Recoil has everything to do with your ability to place the necessary followup shots quickly and accurately; if recoil interferes with your ability to locate your shots consistently and reliably, then you need to go with something that is easier for you to control - and forget the caliber cheerleaders who will tell you that the round THEY shoot is the one you should be using. I may be able to handle a .45 compact with no problem (as soon as I get it, my XD-S .45 will be my EDC), but if the recoil is too much for you to control, then it's not only a waste of your time and money to get it, it could cost you your life. As for concealment of even a larger frame firearm, you are really only limited by your imagination; a friend of mine CC's a 5.25" competition series Springfield XD-M. Buying clothing that is a little larger than you would normally wear, draping shirt tails, utilities, even (yes - I'm going to say it) waist packs are all valid concealment methods. And when you practice, forget the traditional bull's eye targets; you're not shooting for scores, you're shooting for your life. At the very least, use a human silhouette target; to make it a bit more realistic, get realistic scenario targets. Tactical research bears out that using human silhouette targets de-sensitizes you a bit to the idea of shooting a person.


BTW, welcome aboard!
 

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