Point Shooting

[WingRider]

I went to the range tonight with my SR9C (I love this gun more everytime I shoot it) and the newest member of my team, a Ruger LCR. These guns just fit me. I shot nice, tight groups with my SR9C and hardly noticed the recoil. The LCR is quite easy to manage as well. I tried point shooting with the LCR at 6 feet: The panic situation when you can't sight and just have to shoot. My first 2 shots hit the torso of the target. I thought, "Huh! What if I look at the orange dot and shoot for that?" So I did. I only missed the dot by about 2 inches. Given that I never shoot that way, I was really impressed how accurate I could be just point shooting. Hand/Eye coordination is pretty neat.

What experiences have any of you had transitioning from sighted shooting to point shooting?

WingRider

 

[flcracker]

'Point shooting' with a pistol, is the only way I ever 'trained' and learned to shoot.

I long ago found, that in almost all cases, if you point your index finger at something, especially something at a distance of 15 feet or less, that you'll be dead on your target within an inch or so.

If you train yourself to use your pistol as an 'extension' of your index finger, then the round will always hit very close to where you are pointing.

In almost all cases, you're not going to have time to assume a two-handed range shooting position, and time is often critical.

I also usually fire three rounds in very quick succession...the first will tell me where I'm hitting, the second two will be adjustments if necessary.

In distances of eight or less feet, shooting from belt level is something else that can give you a critical edge.

If you do have enough time to 'aim', keep both of your eyes full open, needed for depth perception, and use only your front sight...if it's on your target at ten feet or less, you're not going to miss.

Stay safe and vigilant. And PRACTICE...even if only drawing and dry-firing fairly often, until it all becomes muscle memory

FLc

 

[foxytwo]

'Point shooting' with a pistol, is the only way I ever 'trained' and learned to shoot.

I long ago found, that in almost all cases, if you point your index finger at something, especially something at a distance of 15 feet or less, that you'll be dead on your target within an inch or so.

If you train yourself to use your pistol as an 'extension' of your index finger, then the round will always hit very close to where you are pointing.

In almost all cases, you're not going to have time to assume a two-handed range shooting position, and time is often critical.

I also usually fire three rounds in very quick succession...the first will tell me where I'm hitting, the second two will be adjustments if necessary.

In distances of eight or less feet, shooting from belt level is something else that can give you a critical edge.

If you do have enough time to 'aim', keep both of your eyes full open, needed for depth perception, and use only your front sight...if it's on your target at ten feet or less, you're not going to miss.

Stay safe and vigilant. And PRACTICE...even if only drawing and dry-firing fairly often, until it all becomes muscle memory

FLc

For self defense situations that is the only way to train.

 

[apvbguy]

For self defense situations that is the only way to train.

I agree. doing anything else is just playtime. I carry a weapon for self defense purposes I can give a rats butt if I can place tight groups at 25 yards, at that distance you should be retreating from a bad situation not creating one by returning fire.

 

[flcracker]

I agree. doing anything else is just playtime. I carry a weapon for self defense purposes I can give a rats butt if I can place tight groups at 25 yards, at that distance you should be retreating from a bad situation not creating one by returning fire.

100% on point, in my very humble opinion....

There's also the added fact that you'd better be prepared to explain to a newly hired ADA needing to add scalps to their lodge-pole, as to the reasons you considered yourself to be in a 'life threatening' situation, if your target is more than 10-15 feet in distance from you.

As evident in the Bernie Getz case in NYC some years back, and very recently, Mr Zimmerman here in my home state. You may be right in all ways, and they'll still come at you, and try real hard to convict you.

If at all possible, use a phone to call 911, BEFORE you ever use deadly force. IF you have time to do so. GZ even did that however, and look at the situation he's in today.

Your best SD weapons, are always your brain, common sense, and your feet....If it looks like it may go real bad, do your dead level best to get away from it, and let the LEOs handle it.

FLc

 

[MamaLiberty]

Learn from the best!

I have learned this system and have integrated it into my basic self defense classes as an option to using the sights.

Best point shooting system and training available.
Tactical Shooting.com
Tactical Shooting Academy - Firearms Training
Discover a Complete System of Defensive Shooting based upon the Science of Index & Point Shooting…

 

[Stan45]

I go for the flash sight picture.

 

[Deserteagle]

Once you shoot a lot, you dont always need to look at the sights to know where your gun is going to shoot (mostly at closer ranges of course). When you have half a second to save your life, you wont have time to get a nice sight picture, so train for this situation.

 

[mappow]

3/5/7 Yrd line should always be point shooting. At least the initial first two rounds. JMHO, it was the way I was trained years ago and still train that way today. First round off the hip as soon as weapons clears holster, forearm level to the ground with your elbow tucked in to your waist, second round as you raise your weapon. Again, JMO

 

[apvbguy]

100% on point, in my very humble opinion....

There's also the added fact that you'd better be prepared to explain to a newly hired ADA needing to add scalps to their lodge-pole, as to the reasons you considered yourself to be in a 'life threatening' situation, if your target is more than 10-15 feet in distance from you.

As evident in the Bernie Getz case in NYC some years back, and very recently, Mr Zimmerman here in my home state. You may be right in all ways, and they'll still come at you, and try real hard to convict you.

If at all possible, use a phone to call 911, BEFORE you ever use deadly force. IF you have time to do so. GZ even did that however, and look at the situation he's in today.

Your best SD weapons, are always your brain, common sense, and your feet....If it looks like it may go real bad, do your dead level best to get away from it, and let the LEOs handle it.

FLc

I have to make an objection to the goetz reference, he had no permit to carry and he admittedly said he was trolling the subways looking for troubles. nonetheless IMHO the most important skill a gun carrier can have is speed, speed to put lead on target. taking a long time to draw, aim then fire is a sure way to become a victim. there is only one winner in a gun fight and speed and skill will usually determine the winner.
moral to this story is for everyone who carries a gun should forsake that new holster or even that new gun and they should take the money and find a good self defense trainer, and then train a lot!

 

[Stan45]

Once you shoot a lot, you dont always need to look at the sights to know where your gun is going to shoot (mostly at closer ranges of course). When you have half a second to save your life, you wont have time to get a nice sight picture, so train for this situation.

I have to strongly disagree with that. Not long ago some people used a timer and did a test, flash sight picture and point shoot. Flash sight picture was faster and had tighter groups.

 

[apvbguy]

I have to strongly disagree with that. Not long ago some people used a timer and did a test, flash sight picture and point shoot. Flash sight picture was faster and had tighter groups.

I believe you may have missed the point on point shooting, rounds on com fast is the objective, not tighter groups.

 

[gunnerbob]

If I'm in a critical situation and I need rounds on target, I don't want 3 rds in a 2" group center mass.... I want 3 rds in a 5-6" group center mass. Utilize your target area to the maximum, if you can shoot a half second faster and achieve rounds on target(5-6" group) over being a half second slower with a nice tight group(2-3" group)... take the faster option. I don't need tight groups to drop a target, to an extent. I need lead on target... chest, stomach, neck or pelvis? I'll take one of each if it means I get my shots off faster.

Don't obsess over tight groups, not in a critical sitiuation where your life is on the line. There's being accurate... and being combat accurate. In a defense situation, i'll take combat accuracy everytime. Shoot as fast as you possibly can to achieve rounds on target, if you miss... shoot slower, if you have very tight groups... shoot faster. Distance plays the largest role, if you're at 2 yards... point & shoot! 5 yards... point and shoot a bit slower. 7 yards... point and shoot a bit more slowly. Yet, always shoot as fast as you can while maintaining rounds on target. Every person will be different, it takes time & practice to be able to balance the two to optimum.

This is just opinion and what I practice, take it as you will.

 

[Stan45]

I think you missed the point!!!!
The time on target was FASTER, as a side benefit the group was tighter.
And in the shootings we have all heard and in some cases seen on the news or TV, the NY shootings come to mind, the cops missed. Front sight and press would have saved bystanders from being shot.
Plus I would hate to be in court and ask the question about how you aimed at the bad guy and shot some bystander a block away.

 

[gunnerbob]

I think you missed the point!!!!
The time on target was FASTER, as a side benefit the group was tighter.
And in the shootings we have all heard and in some cases seen on the news or TV, the NY shootings come to mind, the cops missed. Front sight and press would have saved bystanders from being shot.
Plus I would hate to be in court and ask the question about how you aimed at the bad guy and shot some bystander a block away.

I didn't miss your point. It all depends on distance and personal skill... as for me, if I'm firing at a target that's 25 yards away, with a pistol I will not be "point shooting"... I'll be aiming.

I was referencing more to very close distances, as in 0-7 yards... under extreme stress, most people will have a difficult time doing anything other than "point shooting"... adrenaline is a hell of a thing! Fine motor skills become extremely imparied, as well as the ability to focus on anything BUT the target. Tunnel vision kicks in, your thought process gets over taken by reaction and your body will do the work without your mind telling it to.

You are right Stan, many many innocent people could be spared the missed shot if we all could train tooth & nail for a critical situation.

 

[Stan45]

I would say if you are close enough to do a "speed rock" distance like 6 feet. that would be fine. The bag guy may be close enough to grab your gun. Beyond that distance use the front sight.
This issue was solved back at Big Bear Calif. with Jeff Copper, Jack Weaver, Ray Chapman, Elden Carl, Thell Reed, and the Southwest Combat Pistol League.
The first principle is called the “flash sight picture.”

 

[apvbguy]

I think you missed the point!!!!
The time on target was FASTER, as a side benefit the group was tighter.
And in the shootings we have all heard and in some cases seen on the news or TV, the NY shootings come to mind, the cops missed. Front sight and press would have saved bystanders from being shot.
Plus I would hate to be in court and ask the question about how you aimed at the bad guy and shot some bystander a block away.

there is no way you could ever be faster if taking the time to find a sight! I can draw and point shoot from a retention position at my hip. as I am raising the gun up I have gotten 3 shots off before the gun is even high enough to find the sights. the only way an innocent gets hit is if the bullet goes through the initial target.

 

[apvbguy]

I would say if you are close enough to do a "speed rock" distance like 6 feet. that would be fine. The bag guy may be close enough to grab your gun. Beyond that distance use the front sight.
This issue was solved back at Big Bear Calif. with Jeff Copper, Jack Weaver, Ray Chapman, Elden Carl, Thell Reed, and the Southwest Combat Pistol League.
The first principle is called the “flash sight picture.”

on the street they would be calling you the victim.

 

[Ringo]

I've been point shooting since I was a kid. IMO the best point shooter is the Single Action Army.

 

[AARO]

I really like Pt Shooting (PS). It's a great tool to have in your bag for short range encounters. for longer range (> 25ft) you need a better hand to gun fit like the 1911 pistol. I have seen a highly trained Army marksman shoot a 9" plate from 25 yds using PS and keep all the shots on the plate --- most impressive!! He was using a 5" barrel pistol