Pennsy open carry

[milboltnut]

I heard that OC on foot is allowed, even for non-residence. It's not in the stautes... so how is this conclusion brought about? They inform you what you're NOT allowed to do, so that leaves anything else that you can do lawfully? :hang3:

Cops don't know the law, the PAFOA THINKS they know the law:big_boss:, some of it yeah, other parts maybe?

I try to get a hold of Attorney generals office, and they never return your calls.:to_pick_ones_nose:

I called Philly permit division and they told me I was good to go with my utah permit to carry in philly:victory:. Oh, but the PAFOA tells me that Philly passed a law, that is against PA law.:butcher: Who should I believe?:shout:

 

[Deanimator]

1. Open carry is lawful in Pennsylvania, PERIOD.
2. You must have a PA LTCF or recognized equivalent to carry in Philadelphia AT ALL.
3. Firearms laws are preempted at the state level in Pennsylvania, just as they are in Ohio.

Philadelphia can pass a law banning open carry. They can pass a law banning concealed carry. They can pass a law requiring you to join the Shinto religion. All of those laws are null and void on their face and unenforceable. Any LEO who tries to enforce them pierces his own qualified immunity and is subject to a Federal 1983 civil rights suit.

 

[milboltnut]

agreed

BUT, a trip ($$) to the gallows in the mean time is inevitable.

 

[Deanimator]

BUT, a trip ($$) to the gallows in the mean time is inevitable.

Criminality and bullying always escalate.

Nip it in the bud, lest you end up like Chicago or New Orleans... and indeed Philadelphia.

 

[milboltnut]

Criminality and bullying always escalate.

What do you mean, the more they criminalize me the worse it will be for them?

 

[Deanimator]

What do you mean, the more they criminalize me the worse it will be for them?

No bully or criminal stops being a bully or a criminal when he gets what he wants by BEING a bully or a criminal.

When you allow the police to commit crimes and civil torts with impunity, the nature of those crimes and civil torts always worsens. That's why both the Chicago and Philadelphia Police Departments have recently had armed robbery rings operating inside of them.

If you want an out of control police force, do nothing to control it. I guarantee you it'll happen all by itself.

 

[nogods]

1. Open carry is lawful in Pennsylvania, PERIOD.
2. You must have a PA LTCF or recognized equivalent to carry in Philadelphia AT ALL.
3. Firearms laws are preempted at the state level in Pennsylvania, just as they are in Ohio.

Philadelphia can pass a law banning open carry. They can pass a law banning concealed carry. They can pass a law requiring you to join the Shinto religion. All of those laws are null and void on their face and unenforceable. Any LEO who tries to enforce them pierces his own qualified immunity and is subject to a Federal 1983 civil rights suit.

In Link Removed, the court upheld an ordinance prohibiting the possession of weapons in county buildings, stating that the Pennsylvania right to bear arms may be restricted “for the good order of society and the protection of the citizens" and that "Section 509(a) of the County Code allows county commissioners to adopt ordinances regulating the affairs of a county. Section 509(c) of the County Code allows county commissioners to prescribe fines and penalties for violations of a “public safety” ordinance. 16 P.S. §509(c). Here, the County ordinance regulates the affairs of the County, specifically the safety of members of the public who enter the Jefferson County Court House."

State law did not preempt the county law in that case.

 

[milboltnut]

:hang3:

 

[Deanimator]

In Link Removed, the court upheld an ordinance prohibiting the possession of weapons in county buildings, stating that the Pennsylvania right to bear arms may be restricted “for the good order of society and the protection of the citizens" and that "Section 509(a) of the County Code allows county commissioners to adopt ordinances regulating the affairs of a county. Section 509(c) of the County Code allows county commissioners to prescribe fines and penalties for violations of a “public safety” ordinance. 16 P.S. §509(c). Here, the County ordinance regulates the affairs of the County, specifically the safety of members of the public who enter the Jefferson County Court House."

State law did not preempt the county law in that case.

Minich
See posts 7 and 8.

 

[milboltnut]

?????

 

[mrjam2jab]

In Link Removed, the court upheld an ordinance prohibiting the possession of weapons in county buildings, stating that the Pennsylvania right to bear arms may be restricted “for the good order of society and the protection of the citizens" and that "Section 509(a) of the County Code allows county commissioners to adopt ordinances regulating the affairs of a county. Section 509(c) of the County Code allows county commissioners to prescribe fines and penalties for violations of a “public safety” ordinance. 16 P.S. §509(c). Here, the County ordinance regulates the affairs of the County, specifically the safety of members of the public who enter the Jefferson County Court House."

State law did not preempt the county law in that case.

Since this opinion is about a court building preemption doesn't matter since State code prohibits carrying in the court building anyway. As long as the sheriff supplies the state mandated storage facilities for firearms there is no issue.



The illegal Philly ordinance that was recently passed does not effect non-residents as long as you have a reciprocal license.

 

[shoots2thrill]

[quote
The illegal Philly ordinance that was recently passed does not effect non-residents as long as you have a reciprocal license.[/quote]

Carrying a firearm of any sort on the streets of a "First Class" city in PA is prohibited unless you have a LTCF that is valid in PA. That being said does not guarantee you will not be harassed by the local thugs in uniform. (Philly is the only 1st class city in the state).
Is the law unconstitutional? yes.
Will it cost you $$ and time to disagree with it? yes
Is it really worth the effort? maybe
I will just avoid the city altogether, and my money will be spent in townships that are willing to follow the laws that are legal.
Making all these sub ordinances and stipulations has convoluted the issue to the point even LEOs cannot possibly interpret them correctly.

Let's get back to basics and just agree the "Right to KEEP and BEAR arms" is the standard to live by. Nuff said.......

 

[milboltnut]

[quote
The illegal Philly ordinance that was recently passed does not effect non-residents as long as you have a reciprocal license.

Carrying a firearm of any sort on the streets of a "First Class" city in PA is prohibited unless you have a LTCF that is valid in PA. That being said does not guarantee you will not be harassed by the local thugs in uniform. (Philly is the only 1st class city in the state).
Is the law unconstitutional? yes.
Will it cost you $$ and time to disagree with it? yes
Is it really worth the effort? maybe
I will just avoid the city altogether, and my money will be spent in townships that are willing to follow the laws that are legal.
Making all these sub ordinances and stipulations has convoluted the issue to the point even LEOs cannot possibly interpret them correctly.

Let's get back to basics and just agree the "Right to KEEP and BEAR arms" is the standard to live by. Nuff said.......[/QUOTE]



Is it really worth the effort? NO

 

[mrjam2jab]

I heard that OC on foot is allowed, even for non-residence. It's not in the stautes... so how is this conclusion brought about? They inform you what you're NOT allowed to do, so that leaves anything else that you can do lawfully? :hang3:

Since it is not specifically prohibited by statute, it is legal be default.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Is it really worth the effort? NO

There is a certain group of men that might disagree with that:

Where would we be if these guys had said, "Nah... it really isn't worth the effort."

Why even post? You apparently do not like the law, yet it's not worth it to you to even engage in a legal activity out of fear of the government.

 

[milboltnut]

There is a certain group of men that might disagree with that:

Where would we be if these guys had said, "Nah... it really isn't worth the effort."

Why even post? You apparently do like the law, yet it's not worth it to you to even engage in a legal activity out of fear of the government.

What makes you think I like the law? Tell you what Einstein.. you foot the bill and I'll go agaist Philly hows that?

 

[NavyLCDR]

What makes you think I like the law? Tell you what Einstein.. you foot the bill and I'll go agaist Philly hows that?

Sorry, I mis-typed.

You apparently do NOT like the law, yet it's not worth it to you to even engage in a legal activity out of fear of the government.

 

[father-of-three]

Fortunately, Philadelphia does not lead the way when it comes to affairs of the state, though they try their best to do so.

 

[milboltnut]

Sorry, I mis-typed.

You apparently do NOT like the law, yet it's not worth it to you to even engage in a legal activity out of fear of the government.

not worth it

... can't afford it, is more like it. So it's sounds like to me you have the money and the time.. to subject yourself to foolery?

 

[NavyLCDR]

... can't afford it, is more like it. So it's sounds like to me you have the money and the time.. to subject yourself to foolery?

No, I do not have the money or the time. However, I do not allow that to preclude me from exercising my rights and from engaging in lawful behavior. In other words, if a cop or a city government does not like me open carrying, too bad, so sad because my state Constitution and my state laws preempt their opinions, desires and illegal ordinances. I will continue to open carry despite their illegal ordinances.

I have open carried in a park right past an illegal "firearms prohibited" sign, along with a group of like minded people, in response to the illegal arrest of a person in the same park for lawfully possessing and carrying a firearm.

I have continued to open carry despite my own encounter with a local police officer who attempted to bully me to comply with his desire to conceal my firearm by threatening to revoke my Concealed Pistol License, a power which he did not possess.

I do not have the time and money for such foolery, however I will continue to engage in perfectly legal behavior, which I believe provides the most effective means of my self-protection, to wit, the deterrent value of a visibly carried firearm.

In addition, I believe that open carry, on a daily basis, partly fulfills the oath that I took to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.