Open Carry Under Attack

[CharlesMorrison]

Why so much emphasis on the Aurora shooter? Do you think linking your argument to a sensational tragedy will give it more weight? Yet it is easy to understand there is a difference in meeting the "reasonable articulable suspicion" standard between someone legally openly carrying a holstered sidearm... and a guy wearing a gas mask carrying a rifle in his hands heading for the back door of a theater. So your attempt to equate the Aurora shooter to legal open carry ........ fails just on the face of it.

Now....is it legal for a person to carry a pistol tucked in the back of his pants into a 7/11 at midnight? If so then there is no reason for the officer to stop the guy. No one said the officer couldn't observe to see if there is anything nefarious afoot but absent any illegal activity the officer has no "legal" reason to stop the guy.

And it is the OC community confronting officers who illegally detain folks for legal open carry suing the police depts. and their cities/towns/counties that get the courts to require the police to be trained on how to handle legal open carry.

In Michigan those dreaded "in your face" open carriers won many court cases and caused many police depts to be retrained. In fact the Michigan State Police even issued a legal update and distributed it to all the police depts in the State.. and it can be read here:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

and along with that the media jumped on all those incidents hoping to sensationalize the "Oh my GAWD! They have a gun right there in plain sight!" factor only managing to educate the general public that in Michigan open carry is not only legal but no permit is required.... but... if those open carriers who were pushing what you are worried is "too hard" had listened to those who advised for everyone to keep quiet, don't rock the boat, and hide your guns in shame like real men do.... nothing would ever have changed.

One more thing.... what do you consider to be "individual carry rights"? Because if you are thinking that open carry will cause a push back for even concealed carry "permits".... those "permits" are NOT the right to carry concealed! A "permit" is permission from the government.... a government in control of who is/who isn't allowed to carry concealed. And "shall not be infringed" refers to to the government not being in charge of giving, or denying, permission. So a concealed carry permit is really an infringement on the right to bear arms.... NOT the right to bear arms.

If permission must be had from the government before a person can do a thing... then that thing is not a right but is a privilege dependent upon gaining permission from the government in control of the "permits".

All I can say is this;
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[Shoobee]

What I was trying to point out is there is a point that the responding officer has to decide if he/she thinks the person needs to be approached and asked some questions. The person I was responding to thought it should be enough to just look at the guy and clear the call if you observe no illegal activity. Was there anything illegal being done by the Aurora shooter before he entered the theater? If not, by some peoples standard, he should not be stopped.

What I was trying to point out is there are "Shades of Gray" in life, everything is not "Black & White." What one person sees as suspicious activity may not seem so to someone else. A OC guy going into a store with his wife and kids is way to one side of the scale, the guy in full tactical gear on the other end. Where on the scale would you place the guy going into a 7-11 at midnight with a handgun tucked in the back of his pants? It all becomes less clear. It is not a Black & White issue. I fell that police departments need to do a lot more training on how to handle OC situations when the get the MWAG call. There should be guidelines on how to handle those calls.

I give the OC community a lot of credit for pushing for more tolerance in everyone's mind of the right to bear arms. I just hope they don't push to hard and cause a push back on our individual carry rights.

Obviously if someone looks like a psycho, a LEO has a job to do and find out if he/she is a psycho.

That's why CCW is vastly superior to OC within a cityscape environment.

In the woodlands its a different story. But then again you rarely run into a LEO in the woodlands, which is precisely why OC is more appropriate then.

 

[NavyLCDR]

That's why CCW is vastly superior to OC within a cityscape environment.

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Does the big bad gun scare you.....

 

[Shoobee]

Nothing scares me. Primarily because there is nothing on this Earth that I cannot kill. Don't really need a weapon either, God gave me two good hands and those work just fine.

But I tend to avoid psycho's simply because I really don't want to get their blood on me.

Are you a psycho LtCNavy? Or just another Napoleon complex? You sure do rant like a psycho.

More like a keyboard ninja actually.

 

[Bikenut]

Obviously if someone looks like a psycho, a LEO has a job to do and find out if he/she is a psycho.

That's why CCW is vastly superior to OC within a cityscape environment.

In the woodlands its a different story. But then again you rarely run into a LEO in the woodlands, which is precisely why OC is more appropriate then.

Did you just say that CC is vastly superior to OC because it makes it easier for a psycho to avoid being noticed by the police?

Nothing scares me. Primarily because there is nothing on this Earth that I cannot kill. Don't really need a weapon either, God gave me two good hands and those work just fine.

But I tend to avoid psycho's simply because I really don't want to get their blood on me.

Are you a psycho LtCNavy? Or just another Napoleon complex? You sure do rant like a psycho.

More like a keyboard ninja actually.

Please take note of the portion of your post I put in bold because it appears to fit the description of the portion of your post I underlined.

 

[Hawkeye638]

Nothing scares me. Primarily because there is nothing on this Earth that I cannot kill. Don't really need a weapon either, God gave me two good hands and those work just fine.

But I tend to avoid psycho's simply because I really don't want to get their blood on me.

Are you a psycho LtCNavy? Or just another Napoleon complex? You sure do rant like a psycho.

More like a keyboard ninja actually.

Shoobee, you are not contributing anything of value to this conversation. Would you please take your hate and sad attempts at sarcasm somewhere else? Thank you.

 

[schadenfreude]

Shoobee, you are not contributing anything of value to this conversation. Would you please take your hate and sad attempts at sarcasm somewhere else? Thank you.

Unfortunately, Hawkeye, that is his contribution. A review of his posts shows a pattern of contentious behavior aimed at attacking the rights of others, namely OC, picking up the moniker, Trollbee, in the process.

In short, don't feed the troll. :stop:



:smile:

 

[walt629]

Hawkeye! Don't you realize it is the responsibility of every person A to convince every person B that person A is right where as person B is wrong because person B believes in something person A does not agree with?

I'm shocked! :crazy_pilot:

All kidding aside, if one is fortunate enough to live in a state that does not impugn the individuals opportunity to carry in either mode, then the decision is sole up to the individual.

Personally I do believe there are times and situations that would condone personal discretion in the matter of open carry. I have been chastised many time for voicing this concept, but I am a true believer that discretion can be the better part of valor. I am not a student of open carry and with the myriad of state laws regarding open carry, the decision to open carry and then cover up in any situation is strictly up to the individual.

But I do agree with you, you do have the right to do as you see fit. But when a question is asked regarding open or concealed carry, would you really expect to not get the opinions of the opposition expressed?