Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

[Ruger357SP101]

You seem to only want to talk of your personal situation. This board has people from the entire country. And you didn't address my suggested situation. What if you are carrying in a Smart Carry?

I'm in Southern Kalifornia. The average time on the force in L.A. last I saw was 5 years. Much of Kalifornia is anti-gun. If I'm stopped, it's likely by a relatively inexperienced cop who's bosses are anti-gun. For me, it's safer for everyone to not notify. I'm not required to. The less my gun is handled by someone who may not be familiar with it, the safer we all are. You live in a must notify state. Different situations require different actions. If I'm in a state that requires notification, I'll notify. Otherwise because I don't know the local cops and because I've read some of their forums where a large percentage of them brag of "throwing CCW carriers" on the hood of their cars and making their lives miserable, I'll not notify. That's not disrespectful. It's not dangerous. It's not making waves. It's not going to make the cop with a chip on his shoulder think I'm a wanta be cop.

I cant judge you for doing what YOU feel you need to do in YOUR situation, friend.
All I will say is that its not MY business how YOU choose to do what you do....and its none of anyone elses how *I* choose to conduct myself as far as informing or not.

The problem here wasnt that I am telling anyone else what they must do....it was that some poster here cant keep his own nose out of other folks behinds and thinks he has some authority to judge those of us who do things as we feel to.

 

[Treo]

Really?
Honestly now, how many times have YOU personally dealt with a LEO?
Of those times how many did the LEO do anything unlawful or out of line or infringe on YOUR rights PERSONALLY ?
If it did happen, what was YOUR demeanor (again HONESTLY) at the start of the stop ?

RARELY have I seen a case where the LEO went over the line where the citizen being stopped didnt do his best to make a jerk of himself and/or be completely uncooperative.

Frankly I think MOST of the attitude comes from folks who HEARD someone tell a story about a bad LEO encounter. So ONE guy runs into ONE bad cop, the story gets told to 100 guys in a forum just like this and now 100 GOOD cops have to be treated like crap because the 100 guys on the forum now have an attitude towards cops.

I've dealt w/ one CSPD cop that told me I need a permit to carry a firearm in my vehicle (State law specifically states I do not).

And one who, when he found out I had a gun, jumped away from my car and damn near drew. To be clear he found out I was armed because he asked my if I had any weapons in the vehicle and I handed him my permit and he damn near pooped his pants.

Those two were enough I choose to follow the law in my state and keep the information to myself.

I cant judge you for doing what YOU feel you need to do in YOUR situation, friend.
All I will say is that its not MY business how YOU choose to do what you do....and its none of anyone elses how *I* choose to conduct myself as far as informing or not.

You made it our business when you put it forward for discussion

 

[NavyLCDR]

You made it our business when you put it forward for discussion

Apparently his opinions aren't up for discussion....

 

[Lucenut]

jerkoff?

OK you believe defending your rights makes you a jerkoff? I see the problem here as CCWers consider themselves the LEO's assistant. Someone here even said they were willing to give their life for the LEO! That explains the LEO-worship as it pertains to notifying. You have a uniform fetish or something.

Absolutely agree that not informing does not, by default, mean that the person carrying sees cops as the 'enemy'...I do see, however, posts in this forum by a couple folks that absolutely comes off as sounding like LEO's are the enemy.

Its not the failure to inform so much as this attitude presented by a handful of posters in these threads.
Their attitude is a huge part of the problem here. LEO's put their lives on the line every day dealing with routine traffic stops and criminals are enough to have to deal with. They certainly dont need jerkoff CCW'ers acting like Rambo when its not called for.

 

[antietam]

I do know we're always working on changing the more asinine parts of the law here.
Right now they are, yet again, trying to get the parts changed where, like today, Im going to have to disarm to go into Red Lobster, because I cant carry if they even serve any type of alcohol.
And also the manner in which the gun is carried in a vehicle.
Frankly that one confuses me. I mean, when it first passed here we complained because we had to move the gun so that it was not concealed while we were driving, then we'd have to conceal it again when getting out of the car.
The argument was that there was too much handling of the firearm and it could cause an accident.
Ok. Makes sense.
But we're now arguing that we should be able to keep the gun in any manner in the car at all, rather than the limits in the present law.
But...if we dont just keep the gun concealed while we're driving, and we have to REconceal it when we get out of the car...arent we now arguing against the logic we used in the first case ????


The laws here definitely need tweaked some.
I feel that the 'timely notification' aspect is where some abuse by those few bad cops out there could occur. If anything was changed, I think that and the restaurant areas are where Id like to see a change.
Remove the notification issue entirely. It simply isnt necessary and can cause law abiding citizens to become 'criminals' based on the scenario and the LEO involved.

Understood! What an entanglement of legal dung! The fact that CCW-holders are decent-LEGAL tax-paying U.S. citizens practicing a fundamental God-given right but forced to play a state-given right game, scrutinized and micro-managed, state to state, likely breaking a law at any given time, should be a main focus of USA Carry.

 

[bumnthsun]

Agreed. I live in NC and we're required to notify. However, I think I would elect to notify no matter where I am. If you're carrying legally, you should have nothing to worry about, even with an overzealous rookie. I'd prefer to notify over having the LEO catch a glimpse (for whatever reason) on their own and go into panic mode. I don't like kissing pavement.

I agree with you 100% and in some states it is unlawful if you do not inform the LEO. I prefer to notify all the time and not jeopardize my right to carry.

 

[Treo]

I agree with you 100% and in some states it is unlawful if you do not inform the LEO. I prefer to notify all the time and not jeopardize my right to carry.

Alternatively, you could actually learn the carry laws of the state you happen to be in. Especially since you had damn well better know if they honor your state's permit.

 

[antietam]

To inform or not when you have a choice ... bottom line

Let's sum this topic up. Anybody who feels compelled to preemptively inform CCW status to an LEO, when not mandated by law to do so, is someone not to be trusted. As kids they brought apples to school for the teacher! They were born with that charactor. It is no more complicated than that ... fit it in with your own generational lingo but let's get to the substance of this issue; they haven't a clue to constitutional concepts - they are Pharisees. Don't get into a foxhole with these guys because they'll sell you out!

 

[Treo]

How absolutely obnoxious of me to have an opinion that is different than yours. :cray:

Well, you are kind of absolutely obnoxious just not for that :biggrin:

 

[NavyLCDR]

Well, you are kind of absolutely obnoxious just not for that :biggrin:

Is it my gun? Good thing Ruger357SP101 is ignoring me!

Link Removed

 

[Ruger357SP101]

Polite and reasonable citizens defend their rights! You go ahead and give up your weapon, consent to vehicle/cavity searches...

Are you going to be polite when they come to confiscate your weapons? That is going to make them feel safer. That's your goal right?

Such an exaggeration.

Little hint...if we AGREE to a search, friend, its not giving up any rights.
Its simply allowing a search that the officer can do anyone once he's determined 'just cause' because the person is acting like theyre hiding something.

What *I* personally think is that some of you here have attitudes that shows when you're pulled over, so you give the LEO reason to believe youre either hiding something...or just a jerk...in which case you create your own problems.

As Ive said..WHEN cops become the enemy THEN I"ll treat them as such.
Till then I am on the SAME damned side they are and since I know that one way they catch felons is through traffic stops I'll work with them EVERY time.
How the hell does a COP know that Im not being coerced by some felon hiding in my back seat with a gun to my back unless I allow a search?

What *I* know is irrelevant. The LEO needs to know that everything is good.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Its simply allowing a search that the officer can do anyone once he's determined 'just cause' because the person is acting like their hiding something.

However, refusal to give consent to a search is not 'just cause" for the officer to do anything.

United States v. Fuentes:
105 F3d 487 United States v. Fuentes | OpenJurist

29 As for flight, we do not suggest that if a police officer says to a person in an airport, "Do you mind if I talk to you?" and the person says, "I don't want to talk to you--I want to go catch my plane," that the person can be stopped or arrested. His refusal by itself does not give rise to reasonable suspicion or probable cause. Mere refusal to consent to a stop or search does not give rise to reasonable suspicion or probable cause. People do not have to voluntarily give up their privacy or freedom of movement, on pain of justifying forcible deprivation of those same liberties if they refuse.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

However, refusal to give consent to a search is not 'just cause" for the officer to do anything.

United States v. Fuentes:
105 F3d 487 United States v. Fuentes | OpenJurist

Sure it is if youre acting like a complete ass.
And frankly, if you were acting like one I think its funny to see those youtube videos where some mouthy jerk gets dragged from his car and tazed.

You want to be treated with respect by a LEO?
Then treat THEM with a little yourself.

Dont be an ass then expect to not be treated like one.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

Good thing Ruger357SP101 is ignoring me!

Everyone deserves another chance.
Lets see how long yours lasts

 

[NavyLCDR]

Sure it is if youre acting like a complete ass.
And frankly, if you were acting like one I think its funny to see those youtube videos where some mouthy jerk gets dragged from his car and tazed.

You want to be treated with respect by a LEO?
Then treat THEM with a little yourself.

Dont be an ass then expect to not be treated like one.

Refusing to give consent to a search by itself is in no way acting like an ass.

Officer: "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?"
Subject: "Yes, sir, I have a lawfully transported unloaded handgun locked in the trunk."
Officer: "Mind if I see it?"
Subject: "Yes, sir, I do mind. I do not consent to any searches of my vehicle."

No being an ass about it....

 

[Ruger357SP101]

Refusing to give consent to a search by itself is in no way acting like an ass.

Depends.

Ive seen a number of instances over the last couple years where what should have been a routine traffic stop turn very ugly because the driver had to be a smartass.

The only time I ever was asked to search my car it was warranted because of the situation. The LEO's didnt know me from Adam and were very polite and professional in both asking and in their behavior before, during and after I allowed a search of my vehicle.

Had I cussed at them like some morons do and started rambling about my rights, yeah..that would be acting like an ass ....and we ALL Know there are a LOT of people out there who act that way then whine like spanked little girls when they get roughed up and arrested.

9 times out of 10....or more....these folks get exactly what they deserve.

 

[bob16066]

I will never consent to a search. For no other reason than I don't have to.

You are free to surrender your rights as you please.

After you surrender half your rights don't come cryin' to me when they crush the other half under their boot heels.

Think it through: if he has to ask; then he doesn't have "probable cause." I'll bet a dollar that if he thinks he has "probable cause" he'll just Order me out of the car at gunpoint and start his search. I've seen it on "Cops" a billion times.

No problem. I will comply. I was in the Army for three years and one day. I know how to do things I don't want to while rude obnoxious people wave pistols at me. Not a problem.

I do believe in treating the lawperson with respect; and it's beyond my comprehension why they wouldn't treat me with respect and honor my wishes not to consent; which is my right.

Of Course they ALWAYS say: "What are you trying to hide."

I guess they learn that in cop school.

The trick is to have a prepared answer that's a little embarrassing. Like: "I don't want you to see my beanie baby collection."

Don't lie. Have some beanie babies (or whatever) in the Trunk in case he does search without your consent. He'll see
You were honest all along.

The trick is to be meek and humble and honest.

If he's honest and law abiding himself it will put him at ease. If he's dishonest he'll do whatever he wants to anyway and there's nuthin' you can do about it.

 

[softbaitmaker]

It seems that being Americans we all enjoy our Freedoms. That is a given until it comes to Law Enforcement. All of a sudden many get the attitudes of being a hard ass. Tough guy thats going to protect his Civil Rights. Did you ever give consideration to the thought of that is what the LEO is also doing. He is out there every day risking his life protecting yours. Why make it all that much harder to do his job? If you have nothing to hide why not just prove it and allow him and you to go on about your business alot quicker. We are all clammering about the amount of Illegal imigrants swarming our country. State by state the local Governments are now allowing officers to request full identification proof to begin weeding out the folks that don't need to be here. That has added more burden to the LEO's already busy job. I had a friend and his wife killed in a head on collision by a very drunk illegal imigrant that walked away with a few scratches and bruises but my friends are dead. This guy had been arrested 5 times for DUI, was shipped back to Mexico 4 times. The last time he will now spend the rest of his life in an American Prison for Vehicular Murder. 4 Times the LEO's did their job and arrested this individual and 4 times the courts failed us all by just sending him home so he could return in less than 5 days with a new name and do the same thing over. Just let the LEO's do their job without a bunch of hassle and your not surrendering any of your rights by allowing a search or by telling the LEO you are armed by offering up your CCW along with your license. Chances are he already knows you have one run if he ran your plates. JMHO

 

[NavyLCDR]

It seems that being Americans we all enjoy our Freedoms. That is a given until it comes to Law Enforcement. All of a sudden many get the attitudes of being a hard ass. Tough guy thats going to protect his Civil Rights. Did you ever give consideration to the thought of that is what the LEO is also doing. He is out there every day risking his life protecting yours. Why make it all that much harder to do his job? If you have nothing to hide why not just prove it and allow him and you to go on about your business alot quicker.

When a cop pulls me over for speeding, he checks my driver's license and registration and sees my insurance card and writes me a ticket for speeding, his job is done. Why is it part of his job to search my vehicle because I was speeding? Even if I have a gun in the trunk and he asks me if I have a gun and I tell him there is a gun in the trunk... why does that make it his job to look at it?

Just because I have nothing to hide is no reason for me to hand my rights over.

 

[Treo]

I really don’t understand the mindset that waiving your rights (which is exactly what you do as soon as you open mouth or consent to a search) is something we should do to make it easier for the cop.

To the cop on the side of the road you are just another potential criminal you are not his buddy just because you have a CHP.

Even if you have nothing in your car there is nothing to stop the police from dismantling it looking and no rule stating that they must put it back together when they leave.

I am firmly convinced that this one of those things you either get or you don’t and if you don’t nothing in the world (except a bad run in w/ the police) is going to change your mind. SO, I’ll simply leave you w/ this quote

"Any lawyer worth his salt will tell the suspect in no uncertain terms to make no statement to police under any circumstances."
U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson.

For those who don’t recognize the name Robert Jackson was one of the most distinguished jurists of the 20th century
If he can’t convince you I never will