Illinois Corrupt Instructors

[Mags]

There are many excellent Instructors in Illinois.

BUT unfortunately the corrupt ones are showing themselves as decent law-abiding Instructors - even going so far as to create false web-sites that lead you to a very unfavorable Instructor.

I've been hearing about, and had the misfortune, to meet and speak with several of these. One thing I would say to anyone who is looking to get your Illinois Concealed Carry License is really check out your Instructor.

First, you cannot teach numerous states at the same time and say "well they're all basically the same anyway", or an Instructor has you take Illinois and just stamps and signs off on multiple states because you took the ILCCL class. Or the ones who say - give me $100 and I'll teach you everything in 3 hours and sign off on your certificate.

Here's what going to (most likely) happen: 1. The Instructor will lose all their licensing. 2. You will lose all your money and your licensing. 3. Both of you will probably have criminal charges against you. 4. You may never be allowed to carry.

Most importantly, what is going to occur when a violent encounter does happen and you are involved? You will have no idea what is going to happen to your body physically and mentally. You will probably freeze and get yourself, loved ones and others who are completely innocent killed.

If you are going to be an Instructor for Illinois - step up and teach the correct course!!!! Quit screwing over students! You are responsible!

 

[AlphaKoncepts]

I agree with the sentiment of your post. There are alot of band instructors other there, but most are on the up and up.

HOWEVER, YES you can legally teach several states at once depending on your course curriculum. For example our day 1 class is NRA Basic Pistol. NRA Basic Pistol, the fully accredited version with the booklets and NRA training certificate, is good for CCL in FL and AZ. I do advertise that I offer my students "3 states for the price of 1". However Utah does require an additional training module.

 

[telpinaro]

I agree with the sentiment of your post. There are alot of band instructors other there, but most are on the up and up.

HOWEVER, YES you can legally teach several states at once depending on your course curriculum. For example our day 1 class is NRA Basic Pistol. NRA Basic Pistol, the fully accredited version with the booklets and NRA training certificate, is good for CCL in FL and AZ. I do advertise that I offer my students "3 states for the price of 1". However Utah does require an additional training module.

Yes, those "band" instructors really have no business teaching anything other than musical instruments. :wink:

I did take two classes and wound up with permits in four states, so yes... that definitely works. One of my non-resident permits is also Utah, and they actually required the instructor to teach their laws before those of our home state. Did they do that to you, too?

I was wondering... If you don't break the law, and don't lie on your application, what more could happen to you besides getting your permit pulled and having to re-take a proper course and re-apply? I suppose it is Illinois...

 

[AlphaKoncepts]

LOL thanks for catching typo. Stupid music teachers! LOL


I haven't been certified for UTAH yet. My Utah certification class was scheduled for April 11th but got pushed back to May 2nd. However from speaking with other instructors who are Utah certified basically half offer a 4 hour straight Utah class, the other half are adding on 2 or 3 hours before or after one of the days of their carry conceal class. Supposedly this is what Utah instructed them to do, however don't take me at me word on this as it is heresay. I am planning on offering straight 4 hour classes and perhaps discounting for Alum.

 

[msmconstruction]

Re: Your quote

Yes, those "band" instructors really have no business teaching anything other than musical instruments. :wink:

I did take two classes and wound up with permits in four states, so yes... that definitely works. One of my non-resident permits is also Utah, and they actually required the instructor to teach their laws before those of our home state. Did they do that to you, too?

I was wondering... If you don't break the law, and don't lie on your application, what more could happen to you besides getting your permit pulled and having to re-take a proper course and re-apply? I suppose it is Illinois...

To Whom It May Concern:
I agree w/ you about instructors stepping up their game and teach exactly all the components that should be taught for the IL----CCL, but the quote " Yes, those "band" instructors really have no business teaching anything other than musical instruments"----I"m a band/vocal music teacher----it takes a college degree to teach in my profession!!! What do you teach???
Mark---IL

 

[telpinaro]

To Whom It May Concern:
I agree w/ you about instructors stepping up their game and teach exactly all the components that should be taught for the IL----CCL, but the quote " Yes, those "band" instructors really have no business teaching anything other than musical instruments"----I"m a band/vocal music teacher----it takes a college degree to teach in my profession!!! What do you teach???
Mark---IL

No offense intended. I was simply amused by a typo. I don't teach, but my time in the band was the best part of school! I'll always remember that teacher very fondly. He would have been miserable at teaching a CCW class, however... he had a tendency to throw things at people. Sure kept us on our toes... Plus we can all admit the English professor isn't qualified to teach band, nor the math instructor qualified to teach CCW, no matter what degrees they have. Obviously they could easily learn.

 

[Mags]

Several things:

First, yes it was a pun only when you said "band" Instructors - but really we should be calling them corrupt Instructors.

Secondly - I have spoken with Investigators in AZ, FL and Utah and here is how it works. You can, once you have taught, done the range time and a student has passed the NRA Basic Shooting Course give them AZ and FL packages. The students are required to read and know the law prior to submitting for those applications. And yes, you can teach UT on the same day(s) as IL - BUT - as Utah states in all of their paperwork and verbally to me on the phone, you must teach UTAH as a separate course. Their law is their law - it cannot be combined with Illinois law.

Also, please remember something - ILLINOIS REQUIRES 16 HOURS OF CLASS / RANGE TIME!!! How are you teaching your classes - 12 to 14 hour days?

If you are caught, and believe me, there are many who have been reported and just don't know it yet, then you will be facing some serious consequences, such as criminal charges! And you will most likely, as I've been informed by IL investigators, also have your students losing their money and licenses and possibly be facing some criminal charges also.

The only thing I can say for my group - we will teach the required Illinois 16 hour class by itself, not discussing any other states. If someone wants to take Utah classes, then after class they may also have AZ and FL. But we will be on the up and up and not screw up the chance for IL to continue to move forward with concealed carry.

Think about this also - do you truly believe that a beginning student has the capability after only a 16 hour class to safely, accurately, with full facilities and attention to all details carry a loaded firearm concealed? Come on! Have your students take additional classes.

If you are a stand up Instructor, your list of classes you've taken and your Certifications should speak for themselves!!! But even for you, it shouldn't stop there - we should all be learning continuously and never say we're perfect. Keep training, keep learning and keep your students desiring to attain a higher level of learning!

Be safe!

Mags

 

[AlphaKoncepts]

It wasn't a pun when I said band, it was a typo, I meant to say "bad".

Illinois requires 16 hours. Yes. I teach 7.5 hours first day 9-9.5 hour second day. What's the problem?

Either my day one OR my day 2 class WILL satisfy FL and AZ. Both my day 1 and my day 2 are perfectly IL compliant. Neither FL nor AZ require me to teach FL or AZ law. I can teach a FL or AZ applicant IL law and would be perfectly in compliance with FL and AZ training requirements. I won't give away all my tricks of the trade but I am 100% compliant with the training requirements of all 3 states. I do not yet teach Utah.

 

[AlphaKoncepts]

To Whom It May Concern:
I agree w/ you about instructors stepping up their game and teach exactly all the components that should be taught for the IL----CCL, but the quote " Yes, those "band" instructors really have no business teaching anything other than musical instruments"----I"m a band/vocal music teacher----it takes a college degree to teach in my profession!!! What do you teach???
Mark---IL

Dude get real. It was a typo turned into a joke.

 

[daviscovertcarry.com]

MAGS if an Illinois instructor teaches NRA Basic Pistol for the first 8 hours of the state mandated 16 hour course and Arizona, Florida and you forgot Virginia accept that certificate for their non-resident permit. That does not equate to an instructor being corrupt or giving 3 hour courses. But if you don't already understand that, then you probably don't understand my answer either.

 

[Mags]

Davis:

You need to obviously read the entire IL law again. You may only use up to 8 hours (not to exceed 8 hours) of past training. Also, you must initial a full page of questions, get it notarized and mail it in.

Which means - NO YOU CANNOT TEACH SOMEONE ONLY A 3 HOUR CLASS! This is the type of crap Instructors are trying to say qualifies and they obviously do not know or understand the full Illinois qualifications.

Hopefully, since you are also an Instructor, you just received the new email from Illinois which will be taking care of many of the problems corrupt Instructors are trying to utilize. This should also clear up a few things for you.

Sorry about getting so uptight about this - but I am hearing and seeing so much that I'm pretty fed up with the "angles" people are trying, instead of just trying to teach a solid, strong, concealed carry course and doing the best they can for our students. I for one, care deeply about my students, and pray they never have to pull their firearm, let alone ever have to shoot someone. But I also teach many other classes which prepares them just in case - these classes are above and beyond the 16 hours required and we are becoming very well known as honest, caring, SAFE Instructors.

Mags - Link Removed

 

[telpinaro]

Davis:

You need to obviously read the entire IL law again. You may only use up to 8 hours (not to exceed 8 hours) of past training. Also, you must initial a full page of questions, get it notarized and mail it in.

Which means - NO YOU CANNOT TEACH SOMEONE ONLY A 3 HOUR CLASS! This is the type of crap Instructors are trying to say qualifies and they obviously do not know or understand the full Illinois qualifications.

Hopefully, since you are also an Instructor, you just received the new email from Illinois which will be taking care of many of the problems corrupt Instructors are trying to utilize. This should also clear up a few things for you.

Sorry about getting so uptight about this - but I am hearing and seeing so much that I'm pretty fed up with the "angles" people are trying, instead of just trying to teach a solid, strong, concealed carry course and doing the best they can for our students. I for one, care deeply about my students, and pray they never have to pull their firearm, let alone ever have to shoot someone. But I also teach many other classes which prepares them just in case - these classes are above and beyond the 16 hours required and we are becoming very well known as honest, caring, SAFE Instructors.

Mags - Link Removed

I couldn't find anyone who suggested their course was only three hours. The closest I got was when Davis said: "That does not equate to an instructor being corrupt or giving 3 hour courses." This was after saying that the Illinois course already contains the material required by other states, so by teaching all of the Illinois requirements, the students fulfilled the requirements for other states. Not that his class was three hours long.

 

[Mags]

Sorry Davis - I shouldn't have insinuated that you were teaching 3 hour classes.

Unfortunately, though, I have heard, and reported Instructors who are hawking these classes with the same statements you had written. Also, at this time IL is not recognizing VA on their forms for previous credit. Also, you can still only use up to 8 hours of previous training.

All I'm trying to get across here is that there are going to be changes - as per the new Illinois information packet - so hopefully more of these corrupt Instructors will be stopped.

I have attended several gun shows and hear the 3 hour class offered from Instructors and especially from students who come up to tell me about offers they've received. If I do get information I pass it on to the people in charge - the Illinois State Police. I also hear the statement that it is our Constitutional Right - yes, it is, but we also are required to follow the law, so I will teach as per the law.

One of the biggest problems is that the students taught by corrupt Instructors will be receiving a rejection for their licensing. Some students know they are taking a course illegally and will hopefully get caught and get rejected. Others, who don't know better, need to know the law - it's pretty much everywhere - news, radio, gun shows and more. One thing I always explain is that you might not only get rejected, you will probably also be facing criminal charges. To me, it wouldn't be worth it!

Any Instructor should have Morals, integrity, Honesty and Safety as there primary focus, instead of trying to discover ways around teaching the full IL law!

Mags