Help out a noob.

[TLoK]

You guys probably all hear this question constantly and it probably stirs up as much dread as someone asking for recommendation of which hemorrhoid medicine to use. But here it goes.

Which gun should I carry?

Here's some background. I got my CCW earlier this year. I've since been carrying a Taurus PT-709 (it's okay to laugh). I love the little gun. I take it to the range constantly (Idk if that's good or bad). But I really want to carry a full size gun.

I'm really considering the Smith & Wesson M&P. I'm also considering a Glock. To be completely honest, I'm only considering these out of recommendation. So I guess I'm asking for more recommendations. If you wanted to carry a full-size 9mm and your budget was around $400 to $500, and it was also your first full size gun, what gun would you recommend?

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[bofh]

My first recommendation would be, get some quality professional training! Most people spend way too much money on equipment and not enough (or nothing at all) on training. How do you know what you are doing wrong and what you are doing right when it comes to gun handling? Just sending rounds down range is mostly wasting money if you have never trained how to properly operate a defensive handgun. I am not talking about an NRA pistol course, but an actual defensive handgun class.

Having said that, don't get a full-size gun. You will not carry it and soon look for a compact double-stack 9mm. Go with the Glock 19! It's big enough to fight with and small enough to conceal. Alternatively, go with the Glock 26, S&W M&P 9c, or Sig P320 9mm Compact. On Glocks, realize that they usually come with plastic sights that you should replace with aftermarket steel sights.

All of these guns I mentioned have proven reliability. That means people have shot tens of thousands of rounds through these guns without problems. The recoil spring should be changed every 5,000 rounds (as recommended by the manufacturer). Some other springs should be changed at the 15,000 round interval as well. People have used these guns in training classes under adverse conditions and in unusual shooting positions without problems.

You will other forum members recommending other guns, so here are some of the counter arguments:

An external manual safety on a handgun is more of a problem than the solution to a problem. I have seen students in classes fail to disengage the external manual safety when executing realistic training drills. I have even seen students in classes fail to engage the external manual safety when holstering the weapon. They just complicate things, while the only reason for having it on a modern handgun is to prevent a negligent discharge. That problem is solved by maintaining the rules of firearm safety at all times. The, so called, Glock leg, is not a failure of not having an external manual safety, but a failure of maintaining the rules of firearm safety. Also, Tex Grebner famously shot himself in the leg with a 1911.

A grip safety is an external manual safety that tries to solve the negligent discharge problem without actually solving it. A grip safety disengages when your hand is on the grip, i.e., when you are handling the firearm, i.e., when you are producing the negligent discharge. A grip safety shouldn't be on a modern handgun in the first place, as it will impede the operation of the handgun under adverse conditions.

A slide-mounted safety or decocker is problematic as it can be inadvertently engaged when racking the slide. This is an outdated handgun design.

Double-action/single-action handguns are harder to learn as a noob and generally more difficult to shoot accurately in a self defense scenario, as the difference in trigger pulls is affecting the shooter's performance.

 

[Kovernm]

I would recommend going to a range that rents those and try them out for yourself. I have a full size m&p and carry it all the time. I shot a block 19 and hate the way it felt. The new gen 4's fit a little better but I love my M&P.

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[bofh]

I would recommend going to a range that rents those and try them out for yourself. I have a full size m&p and carry it all the time. I shot a block 19 and hate the way it felt. The new gen 4's fit a little better but I love my M&P.

I probably should have added that try before you buy at a range that rents handguns is the best way to figure out what one likes, especially given that most of these ranges do have Glocks and S&W M&Ps. They sometimes have the Sig P320 as well. However, it is quite difficult for an inexperienced shooter to make a decision based on "how the gun feels". I see many, that obviously had zero training, holding the gun wrong and operating it wrong.

As for the Glock (Block) 19 vs S&W M&P goes, I get that people have problems with the looks and the ergonomics of Glocks. I was certainly recommending Gen 4 Glocks. Going back to why I recommend a compact handgun. I do carry a Glock 20 when hiking, so I am not opposed to a full-size handgun. Most people I know and most new shooters I have met, however, simply would not carry a full-size handgun.

 

[Kennydale]

I carry a G17 and sometimes a G26. If you want a bigger firearm for Home defense and carry Glock G19, Sig P320 are really both good. If you want a bit of a money savings look at the Ruger SR9C Usually comes with a 17 round magazine and a 10 round magazine. Can be had for under $400 Link Removed

 

[niceshootintex]

The two biggest questions to ask yourself. How well do I present and shoot the weapon? The other is, what is the reason I am concealed carrying?

I was determined to carry a full size and did for a period. If that is your goal then I recommend a range that rents guns. That will help greatly . My reasons for changing were that I found several compact guns that I shot as well as my full size, I acknowledged my primary reason was CC for SD, and that I liked being invisible by not revealing or printing.

There are so many great guns that it comes down to what do you really feel competent with? Do not trust gun reviews. Rent a dozen or so over a few months and narrow it down. Good luck.



The Place To Be

 

[TLoK]

Thanks for the advice, guys. As far as training, I'm using the LaserLyte dry fire set up right now and have gotten pretty good at quick draw and getting shots on target, but i can tell its sloppy. In other words, I'll definitely be getting some real hands in training.

Actually, I was considering joining the NRA, doing their normal pistol courses, but also, they do have defensive courses as well. I watch a ton of John Lovell (Warrior Poet) videos on YouTube. He's pretty awesome. But it'll be a month or so before life slows down enough that I can actually go and take any courses.

As far as full size vs compact, I just really want to carry a full size 17+1 9mm. I have a friend who carry a full size Sig and next to his M&P Shield. He loves carrying full-size. I just like the idea of feeling a heavy gun on me. But I'm also the guy who basically has a hidden Batman utility belt for his EDC.

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[TLoK]

I live in Florida so if anyone wants to recommend a good defensive/combat instructor, I'm open to Suggestions

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[bofh]

I live in Florida so if anyone wants to recommend a good defensive/combat instructor, I'm open to Suggestions

• Link Removed is sometimes in St. Augustine, FL, offering the Combat Focus© Shooting and Advanced Pistol Handling classes
• James Yeager's Tactical Response is sometimes in Titusville, FL, offering Fighting Pistol and Advanced Fighting Pistol classes
• The Massad Ayoob Group is sometimes in Live Oak, FL, offering MAG40 classes
• Tom Givens' Range Master is sometimes in various places in Florida, offering Combative Pistol classes
• SIG SAUER academy is sometimes in various places in Florida, offering Devensive Handgun classes
• Link Removed offers classes throughout Florida, such as Pistol Immersion I and II

Alternatively, you can certainly travel to the home location of some of these out-of-state schools if you have the means and are willing. I can name you a number of top firearm training schools that do not host classes somewhere else or at least not in your area, such as Reid Hendrichs' Valor Ridge, Gunsite Academy, and Thunder Ranch.

Alternatively, you can use Google to find firearm training schools and read the reviews. Look for multi-day classes that shoot 300-600 rounds per day and offer a mix between class room instruction and range instruction. Look for a low student-to-instructor ratio. Look for classes that focus on fundamentals.

 

[TAC]

Recommendations are great, but do not make you decisions based on recommendations alone.

Take the recommendations you have gotten, that fall into your price range, and look on-line for as many reviews as you can find. While going through the reviews, pay serious attention to how they evaluate the ergonomics, reliability and accuracy of the pistols.

Now you can narrow it down to those that you really want to look at.

Once you have narrowed it down to those that you really want to look at, go find a range that rents out these pistols and go shoot them.

OK, now you know which ones "feel" good to you and which ones you seem to shoot well. Now go back and rent them again. This should allow you to pick out the "one" for you.

Now, make sure that you get a good holster and belt(if you are planning on carrying it on your waist).

Yup, this might sound like a longer process than you were thinking about, but the last thing you want to do is end you with something that really isn't the right thing for you. For instance, the Glock is a great pistol, but is isn't the right one for me. It doesn't fit my hand and is not comfortable for me. No matter how good the Glock is, and no matter how much somebody else might like it, I am better off with something else. Just make sure that you do not end up with something that will leave you in the position of having been "better off with something else".

 

[Murderface]

A lot of great advice given here and i'm not to going to repeat or contradict them. The first gun i bought was a Ruger SR9C. For me, it's perfect. It has a thumb safety, if you like that, i appendix carry so i do but i know a lot of people hate a safety but to each their own. Please don't knock me for liking the thumb safety, i just do. This gun also has the trigger safety built-in so there's another added layer of safety. Anyhow, it's about the size of a Glock 19, maybe a tad smaller. It comes with 10+1 or 17+1. 10+1 has a small pinky extension. I don't have big or small hands, just average so the grip is perfect sized for me. I'm 5' 11", average build, etc. The cost is roughly $400-$450...you can find them cheaper if you look or spend more if you are lazy but i'd really suggest taking it for a test drive. Like i said, FOR ME, it's perfect but my perfect might not be your perfect. Obviously, it's the C for compact so there is the SR9 you could look at for a slightly bigger gun. Just do your own test driving, make sure you put more than 5 rounds through a test gun if you are inclined to like it. You might like the S&W 380 Bodyguard but if you only take 5 shots, you won't get that 'DAMN...that's some crazy kick to it' feeling you'll get after firing a box of ammo. You can like a gun in 5 rounds, you can hate a gun in 5 rounds but you need 50 to get a good feel for it and be relatively sure of how it's going to feel. Lastly, remember this, all i've written is MY opinion, you might disagree, you might agree, but this is just how I feel.

 

[bofh]

Since this has been mentioned, it is not the gun that is not accurate, it is you that is not accurate shooting the gun. Put any gun on a benchrest or into a vise and it will shoot way more accurate than you ever can off-hand.

While the ergonomics of a handgun can help or get in your way with shooting it accurate, it is mostly the lack of fundamentals that make you shoot bad. With all the handguns hickok45 has used in his videos, has he ever shot one badly? No, because he knows the fundamentals. He even comments on his video when he discovers a bad flinch.

Now, a defensive handgun should be easily shootable, meaning you should be able to shoot it accurate and fast without the need to take an extraordinary time to concentrate on the shot. A good trigger and good sights are, in my opinion, quite helpful. How it fits your hands is, in my opinion, less of an issue if you hold the gun right.

 

[bofh]

Thanks for the advice, guys. As far as training, I'm using the LaserLyte dry fire set up right now and have gotten pretty good at quick draw and getting shots on target, but i can tell its sloppy. In other words, I'll definitely be getting some real hands in training.

Actually, I was considering joining the NRA, doing their normal pistol courses, but also, they do have defensive courses as well. I watch a ton of John Lovell (Warrior Poet) videos on YouTube. He's pretty awesome. But it'll be a month or so before life slows down enough that I can actually go and take any courses.

As far as full size vs compact, I just really want to carry a full size 17+1 9mm. I have a friend who carry a full size Sig and next to his M&P Shield. He loves carrying full-size. I just like the idea of feeling a heavy gun on me. But I'm also the guy who basically has a hidden Batman utility belt for his EDC.]

Read my comments in the iTarget dry fire target app thread about using gadgets, like LaserLyte, for dry practice and their negative impact in your fundamentals.

I have never attended an NRA pistol course. It was never worth my time and money. You learn way more from one of the training schools I posted. If you know nothing about firearms, the rules of firearms safety and basic firearm handling (loading, shooting and unloading without violating the rules of firearms safety), then these training schools offer courses for you as well. The NRA is far behind when it comes to modern firearms training (and a lot of other things). Understand that once you join the NRA, you will receive e-mail and postal spam for life from them, all for making you spend more money.

As for full-size vs. compact gun, realize that we are talking about 15+1 with a Glock 19 vs. 17+1 with a Glock 17, for example. There is a 2 oz. difference between both guns loaded, but the Glock 17 sticks out half an inch more. I carry the Glock 19 with 15+1 rounds, but I also carry two 17-round Glock 17 backup magazines. That's 50 rounds of 9mm. When I go jogging, I carry my 12+1 Glock 26 with one 17-round Glock 17 backup magazine. That's 30 rounds of 9mm. Yes, Glock 17 magazines fit in a Glock 19 and in a Glock 26. You should carry at least one backup magazine anyway.

 

[cre8ors]

You can't go wrong with the Glock 19. It's simple, dependable, easy to handle, tons of holsters and after market add-ons available. Go to utube and look at the different gun reviews. It can give you some insight into what others have picked for their carry guns. I carry a J-frame revolver in summer and a H&K p30sk in winter. Both choices decided on after a ton of research.

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