Gun Show Question


getlost4x4

New member
So I decided to go check out a gun show. What a waste of money that was. Just a bunch of junk, i thought i'd see some cool guns. Nope, just junk, crap guns, and coins. This is my first gun show i've decided to go to. Usually i just hit up Cabela's.

Anyway, they had a sign up that said all guns must be checked in, this includes concealed carry. I think, the hell i'm letting you hold my gun. Its concealed and you can't see it anyway.

Should i disarm or not?

This was at a hotel convention center, not owned by the gun show and they allow firearms on the property.

Montana law says i only have to remove my gun in government buildings, banks, post offices, and in schools.
 

jg1967

New member
This is mostly a safety measure, there have been accidents when people pulled out their pieces to test new holsters, etc etc. Just imagine you take your gun out (safely) and set it down on the sales table to try a different model and somebody walks up from behind you, sees your gun, thinks it's for sale and "dry fires" it. Voila. That sort of thing.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
Montana law says i only have to remove my gun in government buildings, banks, post offices, and in schools.

You might want to reread that Montana law. Montana law does NOT require you to remove your gun in those places, nor does it prohibit carrying guns in those places. Montana law only prohibits CONCEALING a firearm in those places.

Link Removed
 

getlost4x4

New member
i have a Wyoming Concealed Permit.

I'm not reading in the part where it says you can carry open in a bank, school etc. Maybe you can direct me to that one.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
i have a Wyoming Concealed Permit.

I'm not reading in the part where it says you can carry open in a bank, school etc. Maybe you can direct me to that one.

Laws in the United States do not define what is a legal activity. Laws in the United States define what is illegal activity. So, the question is not, "Show me a law that says it is legal." The question, in the United States' legal system is, "Show me the law which makes it illegal."

The website you have posted:
Link Removed

contains correct information. Notice, "No weapons, concealed or otherwise, are allowed in school buildings in Montana." is correct because of this Montana law:
"45-8-361. Possession or allowing possession of weapon in school building -- exceptions -- penalties -- seizure and forfeiture or return authorized -- definitions. (1) A person commits the offense of possession of a weapon in a school building if the person purposely and knowingly possesses, carries, or stores a weapon in a school building."

So, let me ask you, show me where Montana statute 45-8-361 allows me to carry books into a school building? Where is the law that says books are permitted in the school building? Of course books are permitted in the school building; why? Because there is no law that prohibits books in school buildings.

Notice this from the website you posted, "Even with a concealed weapons permit, you may not carry a concealed weapon in the following places:

buildings owned or leased by the federal, state or local government
financial institutions
any place where alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed and consumed" which is also a true statement based on this Montana statute:

45-8-328. Carrying concealed weapon in prohibited place -- penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon in a prohibited place if the person purposely or knowingly carries a concealed weapon in:
(a) portions of a building used for state or local government offices and related areas in the building that have been restricted;
(b) a bank, credit union, savings and loan institution, or similar institution during the institution's normal business hours.
(c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed under a license issued under Title 16 for the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.

There is NO law in Montana that makes it illegal for you to open carry a firearm with or without a license. There is NO law in Montana that makes it illegal to openly carry a firearm into a bank, government building, or place serving alcohol. So, my question to you becomes, "Show me the Montana statute that makes open carry illegal in a bank, government building or place serving alcohol." There isn't one. Therefore that activity is legal, just like carrying a book into those places would be legal, because there is no law against it.
 

tuts40

New member
Concealed carry means cannot be seen. Does anyone truthfully expect everyone to simply hand it over at the door?
 

father-of-three

New member
At least in some states, I believe there have been additional guidelines iike this to keep gun shows from being stopped altogether. Sorry I don't have more on this at the moment. Like with most other places that have "No gun" signs, they may be able to cite a person with trespassing assuming they do not initially leave upon being discovered.
 
The gun shows I've been to in Portland (Oregon) say you have to zip-tie your action open, but you maintain possession. But you raise a point - the gun show isn't the "owner" of the property. In Oregon at least, it is the owner of the property that has to disallow guns.

But one could say that a private business whose sole purpose is to rent out the space concedes "ownership authority" to the renter during that time.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if the person MANAGING the property at the time says "no guns" (or makes other rules like zip-tying your gun open,) you comply. I don't want people disobeying the rules I set in my house, why would you want to disobey the rules of the place you're visiting. (AKA: I don't care if you went to my basement bathroom with the window open and the vent fan on to smoke, I have a sign saying no smoking in my house.)
 

getlost4x4

New member
Go ahead and try that out for me. I'll come visit you in prison.


i have a Wyoming Concealed Permit.

I'm not reading in the part where it says you can carry open in a bank, school etc. Maybe you can direct me to that one.

Laws in the United States do not define what is a legal activity. Laws in the United States define what is illegal activity. So, the question is not, "Show me a law that says it is legal." The question, in the United States' legal system is, "Show me the law which makes it illegal."

The website you have posted:
Link Removed

contains correct information. Notice, "No weapons, concealed or otherwise, are allowed in school buildings in Montana." is correct because of this Montana law:
"45-8-361. Possession or allowing possession of weapon in school building -- exceptions -- penalties -- seizure and forfeiture or return authorized -- definitions. (1) A person commits the offense of possession of a weapon in a school building if the person purposely and knowingly possesses, carries, or stores a weapon in a school building."

So, let me ask you, show me where Montana statute 45-8-361 allows me to carry books into a school building? Where is the law that says books are permitted in the school building? Of course books are permitted in the school building; why? Because there is no law that prohibits books in school buildings.

Notice this from the website you posted, "Even with a concealed weapons permit, you may not carry a concealed weapon in the following places:

buildings owned or leased by the federal, state or local government
financial institutions
any place where alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed and consumed" which is also a true statement based on this Montana statute:

45-8-328. Carrying concealed weapon in prohibited place -- penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon in a prohibited place if the person purposely or knowingly carries a concealed weapon in:
(a) portions of a building used for state or local government offices and related areas in the building that have been restricted;
(b) a bank, credit union, savings and loan institution, or similar institution during the institution's normal business hours.
(c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed under a license issued under Title 16 for the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.

There is NO law in Montana that makes it illegal for you to open carry a firearm with or without a license. There is NO law in Montana that makes it illegal to openly carry a firearm into a bank, government building, or place serving alcohol. So, my question to you becomes, "Show me the Montana statute that makes open carry illegal in a bank, government building or place serving alcohol." There isn't one. Therefore that activity is legal, just like carrying a book into those places would be legal, because there is no law against it.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
Go ahead and try that out for me. I'll come visit you in prison.

Well, getlost4x4, since you have such a better command of Montana law that we do, obviously, it should be very simple for you to answer 1 easy question:

If I open carry a handgun plainly visible in a holster on my belt into a restaurant that serves alcohol in Montana that is not within 1000' of a school, please tell us exactly which statute would I be violating? I can't wait for the answer...
 

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