That's just it with hollow points... I would figure they could over penetrate too. Especially the bonded ones. They go through windshields and what not. The only thing you miss is the expansion with hollow points as far as .45...
The amount of rounds that completely miss their intended target, whether it's police or civilian, and hit a bystander going full velocity, is so significantly small, worrying about one that would pass through seems irrational.
unless i misunderstood your comment-
I'm speaking of the FMJ hitting the target & passing thru (rather than mushrooming & staying put) - and hitting whatever else behind it.
Using a 230-grain projectile at 850 feet per second from the muzzle, it’d penetrate through that 9″ torso and when it overpenetrated it’d still be going 498 feet per second. That would give it enough energy to be able to penetrate over 16″ of ballistic gel, definitely capable of a fatal hit. But let’s put it in perspective — let’s say that the .45 ACP FMJ penetrated through the 9″-thick attacker, and continued on to hit a bystander — at 498 feet per second, it’d have enough energy to easily pass completely through 9″ of bystander, and still be going at 252 feet per second! After exiting the bystander, it’d still maintain enough energy to reach almost 8″ deep into ballistic gel — again, far enough to cause serious damage, and depending on where it hits, it may even cause a critical/fatal hit on a person behind the bystander behind the attacker. Yes, one .45 ACP FMJ could pass completely through two people and lodge deeply enough in the third to cause a fatal hit.
Is overpenetration a concern?
Yes, but it’s only a significant concern if you’re foolish enough to load your defensive weapon with FMJ bullets instead of hollowpoints. If hollowpoints are legal for self defense where you live, USE THEM. They’re much more effective wounders, they’re much more likely to stop an attacker, and they vastly minimize any risk of overpenetration. A hollowpoint expands so large that it slows down dramatically while it’s traveling through the attacker’s body; even if it overpenetrates it’ll be going so slowly that it won’t be nearly as dangerous as an FMJ would be. The only time I’d recommend against hollowpoints is when you’re using a tiny caliber (specifically .22LR, .25 ACP, or .32 ACP) where there just isn’t enough energy available to push a hollowpoint deep enough to cause a critical hit — in those cases, you have to go with a non-expanding bullet; wadcutters would be preferred, but use FMJ’s if you can’t get wadcutters.
There are several different issues here:
Deep penetrating JHP rounds are significantly less lethal beyond the intended target than FMJ rounds. How do we know this? People actually test stuff. From More on Overpenetration - What About FMJ's? | Shooting The Bull:
- A round-nose FMJ will pass straight through, keeping a lot of energy. Depending on the angle the round is traveling, it may end up hitting someone a few miles down the road with enough energy to injure or kill someone.
- A flat-nose FMJ may tumble while passing through and even change direction. It may or may not keep a lot of energy. It may or may not travel a significant distance beyond its target and injure or kill someone.
- A decent JHP will reliably expand and dump quickly most of its energy. Even if it penetrates fully, the small amount of remaining energy limits its lethality beyond the intended target severely.
In any case, hitting the target would be the first priority. The reason why officers hit bystanders at all is because they miss the target: Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers - CNN.com.
Jhp are meant to expand in soft tissue.
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There are several different issues here:
Deep penetrating JHP rounds are significantly less lethal beyond the intended target than FMJ rounds. How do we know this? People actually test stuff. From More on Overpenetration - What About FMJ's? | Shooting The Bull:
- A round-nose FMJ will pass straight through, keeping a lot of energy. Depending on the angle the round is traveling, it may end up hitting someone a few miles down the road with enough energy to injure or kill someone.
- A flat-nose FMJ may tumble while passing through and even change direction. It may or may not keep a lot of energy. It may or may not travel a significant distance beyond its target and injure or kill someone.
- A decent JHP will reliably expand and dump quickly most of its energy. Even if it penetrates fully, the small amount of remaining energy limits its lethality beyond the intended target severely.
In any case, hitting the target would be the first priority. The reason why officers hit bystanders at all is because they miss the target: Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers - CNN.com.
Did they actually test this? I read through their article but found no test...they just know the numbers...where did they get their numbers from?
Let’s consult Charles Schwartz’s excellent Quantitative Ammunition Selection to find out.
Is this more pertaining to .45 caliber or all fmj's. Reason I ask because I believe military police still use hardball. I know we did when I was in.
Over penetration is a phrase and concept the FBI has admitted to inventing and using in their report as one of the reasons they needed to get rid of the 10mm. They didn't want to admit that the 10mm was too much for their agents ( CPA's and Lawyers) to handle. The factual records kept by the FBI on the other hand show that 70% of all shots fired in a shooting completely miss the target. Worry about trying to shoot and hit your target with the ammo of your choice. Over penetration is in the same category as flying saucers, everybody talks about it but nobody has ever seen it.
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