Forbidden carry in Missouri question

B

bigb360

New member
Hi. I just got my CCW in Missouri. I just had a question about the prohibited carry places in the law (MO 571.107). It looks this list is just a suggestion almost, and really doesn't carry the force of law unless you refuse to leave when asked. Am I right about that?

Subsection 1 subdivisions 1-17 list all of the typical places you can't carry (jails, polling places, schools, churches, casinos, etc) but then section 2 says, "Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises." Then it goes on to say if you leave the premises when asked, you're basically fine.

Is this true? Can I carry in a school or church or anywhere and not fear for prosecution?
 
Of course you can NOT carry in a school or in a government building. Yes you can be prosecuted. Were you asleep during your little trainning course? You should have gotten these questions answered then.
 
Why do you think I'm asking the question? Of course he covered this, but also included the caveat that it isn't a crime, but an infraction. Read the law above and please provide a useful answer.
 
So then how are states now making laws that allow teachers to carry in schools? I understand about federal buildings. I'm not asking about federal buildings.
 
When I took my Missouri CCW class it was explained the same, if asked to leave because you are carrying you have to leave or you will be charged with trespass. But obviously there are exceptions, schools, federal buildings, etc...

I would imagine states are adding laws for exceptions for teachers to carry, not sure if the federal govt would try and fight that since is goes against the gun free school zone laws.
 
The Federal Gun Free Zones Act of 1990 allows for exceptions for licensed carry and allows the governing school authority to make exceptions. MO statutes state in the 17 itemized list of no carry zones that any zones prohibited by federal law (item9) you can't carry. Although it states it wouldn't be a criminal offense in MO under that itemized list, I would highly suspect that you would still be charged with a federal gun charge if you violate federal law....such as a school zone...UNLESS the State or school authority makes exceptions to license holders. Most States that I know of follow federal law for firearm prohibition. I live in Maine, the laws aren't that confusing...or misleading. You should consult with a lawyer for clarification. But at the end of the day for the sake of your carry license, I wouldn't carry in those prohibited areas just because it states it wouldn't be a criminal infraction. If you break federal law, it certainly would be criminal and you would lose your license and guns.

Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://handgunlaw.us/states/missouri.pdf
 
It depends strictly on the state. In Kalifornia it is not illegal to carry in a school as long as you have a carry permit.
 
If you have a permit Fed. law does allow you to carry on school property as long as State law is silent on the matter. This business of "well the State would probably charge you under Fed. law..." is BS. States can't make up laws that don't exist and alluding that they can or will simply does a disservice to those trying to understand exactly what the law is. Understand the law, follow it and make the authorities follow it as well. If we have to obey it so do they. I've taken the county I live in to court because they refused to issue me my CHP because I refused to provide a Social Security number. It took me exactly seven minutes to win my case and set president for the entire State.
 
First, let me state that I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on T.V.

I am a firearms instructor and among other classes, I teach Missouri CCW classes in the St. Louis area.

I take great pride in giving all students, regardless of the issuing state CCW course as much legal information, including use of force laws for their home state.

You are correct it is an infraction of Missouri Concealed Weapons law. It is not criminal.

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100 dollar fine the first time if asked to leave, refuse to leave and an officer is called to remove the person in violation. They are also acting like an idiot giving all CCW holders a bad name when a law officer has to come remove someone for a violation, really it makes us all look bad.

Someone can have WRITTEN authorization from the governing body of a school, nightclub, bar, daycare, casino, church etc... then it is NOT even an infraction, you have permission. Keep a copy of the authorization in your safe, you may need it.

As far as the school zones go, Missouri CCW is good for concealed weapons in Missouri school zones ONLY. Utah is good for school zones in Utah ONLY, Florida CCW is good for school zones in, you guessed it, Florida ONLY.

That is one of the main reasons we suggest all CCW holders get the CCW from the state in which they live. Why many instructors don't inform student of this is beyond me. I would ask for my money back on any non resident CCW class that did not specifically mention this. It's a felony, you can go to prison for a long time. Ignorance is not an excuse and instructors SHOULD know better.

Another thing to consider that applies to school zones: The castle doctrine:

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n MO we also have the castle doctrine, which specifies that you can have a handgun in your car, even without a license to carry. The rules of engagement are different.

If you have an out of state non resident CCW and you forget to remove the gun from yourself, and walk within 1000 ft of ANY school it is a state Felony and Federal felony. Some subdivisions are in close proximity of schools, so walking your dog at 2 AM with a Florida CCW and a concealed weapon in the state of Missouri is still a FELONY.

Once again: I AM NOT a lawyer.

If you need specific clarification of these I highly suggest you find a qualified lawyer that specializes with use of force and firearms laws, not the general public via ANY forum, although this forum is very informative. There are a few good attorneys in MO. One in particular is Kevin L. Jamison. In fact I highly suggest getting his book, "Missouri weapons and self defense law" ISBN : 0936783370 a very good read pertaining to MO laws and pertinent case law from around the country.

Do not ask the medical malpractice lawyer with the eye-patch, they do not know.

Remember and it should be clear from other post here. ALL STATE LAWS DIFFER! You must research them. I always suggest looking here on uscarry and then, finding the statues for each state you will travel to, THEN go directly to the state website, print the statutes read them and if something is unclear please contact a lawyer to explain them before traveling.

Take care

Dennis

edcfirearms
 
The part about it not being a crime unless you leave is for business that post signs that concealed firearms are not permitted. It doesn't apply to places that forbid it under federal law.
 
Dfarcher said:
Of course you can NOT carry in a school or in a government building. Yes you can be prosecuted. Were you asleep during your little trainning course? You should have gotten these questions answered then.
Click to expand...

...'cause being rude is always the best policy.
 
In Mo (with a MO CCW) you can be in the school zone, but not in the building. Not legal if you have a out of state CCW. In Mo your legal at your church IF the church authority allows.. i.e. preacher, elders, whoever has that authority. In a Mall or business with is posted and you get made they can ask you to leave and if you refuse will call the lcl leo's. If you still refuse then you'll be arrested for trespass. This part I'm not sure on but I think you pull this about 3 times and you lose your CCW for a time. Again with a MO CCW your good in a school zone or property, but not inside a building. i.e. you park at the curb, see your child coming out and meet that child on the grounds to escort them back to your car. Thats ok.. Don't go inside the building after that child with your weapon.
 
Contact Kevin Jamison 816-455-2669 for the specifics.

Some of the laws overlap, some get a little confusing... obviously..

He is a use of force lawyer in MO specializing in weapons and self defense.

He has a book out Missouri Weapons and Self Defense Law. I highly suggest it.

His book explains the laws correctly.

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He always answers the phone!

You can PM me if you like, but I am not an lawyer. I teach MO CCW and use his materials several times a week.


Dennis
 
If you have a permit Fed. law does allow you to carry on school property as long as State law is silent on the matter. This business of "well the State would probably charge you under Fed. law..." is BS. States can't make up laws that don't exist and alluding that they can or will simply does a disservice to those trying to understand exactly what the law is. Understand the law, follow it and make the authorities follow it as well. If we have to obey it so do they."

This is by Far the best response I see on this matter. As a Missouri Instructor This is the best way to interpret this law. It specifically states "2. Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises. If such person refuses to leave the premises and a peace officer is summoned, such person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed one hundred dollars for the first offense. If a second citation for a similar violation occurs within a six-month period, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed two hundred dollars and his or her endorsement to carry concealed firearms shall be suspended for a period of one year. If a third citation for a similar violation is issued within one year of the first citation, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed five hundred dollars and shall have his or her concealed carry endorsement revoked and such person shall not be eligible for a concealed carry endorsement for a period of three years."
It goes on to talk about different consequence and such." subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1" If you do your research this is all of the places that are "Prohibited" by this law. So My interpretaiton is that they Cannot arrest you until you refuse to leave. However I am not a Lawyer.
 
May I remind the original poster that Concealed means keeping it concealed. If you are going to carry a gun concealed you must do your absolute best to keep the gun concealed 100% of the time (unless needed in self-defense). I say this due to the current view on guns by most people. If they see your gun (no matter where you are) they will probably call the police first. If this happens, be polite and leave the premises if asked.

So far the only case dealing with your question was of a man in central Missouri who went into a store with a "No Gun Sign" and told them what he thought of their sign. He was arrested (and he was not carrying that day).

I am not a lawyer and I am not giving legal advice. You carry your gun at your own risk. Know the laws of your state and understand the consequences of your actions. The list of 17 was put into the concealed carry exception law to buy votes to pass the law. Section 2 is what takes the bite out of the law (with the exception of Federal Buildings, Trains, Bus's and Airport Secure areas.

And as was mentioned above, the book by Kevin Jamison is excellent along with the video by Learn To Carry featuring Kevin Jamison.
 
Well that's a violation of his first and second amendment rights. How could he be arrested for expressing disapproval of their policy?

Thanks for the responses everyone.
 
RJT CCW said:
May I remind the original poster that Concealed means keeping it concealed. If you are going to carry a gun concealed you must do your absolute best to keep the gun concealed 100% of the time (unless needed in self-defense). I say this due to the current view on guns by most people. If they see your gun (no matter where you are) they will probably call the police first. If this happens, be polite and leave the premises if asked.

So far the only case dealing with your question was of a man in central Missouri who went into a store with a "No Gun Sign" and told them what he thought of their sign. He was arrested (and he was not carrying that day).

I am not a lawyer and I am not giving legal advice. You carry your gun at your own risk. Know the laws of your state and understand the consequences of your actions. The list of 17 was put into the concealed carry exception law to buy votes to pass the law. Section 2 is what takes the bite out of the law (with the exception of Federal Buildings, Trains, Bus's and Airport Secure areas.

And as was mentioned above, the book by Kevin Jamison is excellent along with the video by Learn To Carry featuring Kevin Jamison.
Click to expand...

If he was arrested for stating his opinion and was not carrying that day, there had to be more to the story than that. What was the charge?
 
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