whodat2710
New member
Link Removed
For you Vermont residents
- Thread starter whodat2710
- Start date
BC1
,
Shots fired recently? How recently? I could understand if here was an active shooter reported but if the shots were heard on another day this is wrong. There's a disturbing trend across America whereby police are acting in a manner inconsistent with the law. This must be stopped and a lawsuit speaks volumes for future encounters. I don't personally like OC but it' legal and if someone chooses o do so their rights and the law must be respected.
wolf_fire
New member
Maybe I missed something, but it only seemed like Severance was detained and not arrested. Being put in handcuffs does not an arrest make. If shots were fired in the area a short time ago and along comes someone with a firearm, I can see the police detaining that person and then letting them go once they check out.
The article title says arrested, but the article itself says, "you are not under arrest".
If I missed something, please show me. Thanks.
The article title says arrested, but the article itself says, "you are not under arrest".
If I missed something, please show me. Thanks.
whodat2710
New member
I personally would like to echo BC1's question and find out how "recently" those shots were fired. If it was that day that's one thing. If it was that month there are problems.
Also, if someone is merely exercizing their rights in a lawful manner then why is there a reason to even detain them? Because he had no shirt? It's summer! If there was no threat, why not just say "hey buddy, we've had reports of shots fired in this neighborhood, do you know anything about it?" You have a civil conversation. There was no way to prove whether "reported" shots came from his gun anyway unless they had recovered bullets or casings and could compare them to his gun.
Also, if someone is merely exercizing their rights in a lawful manner then why is there a reason to even detain them? Because he had no shirt? It's summer! If there was no threat, why not just say "hey buddy, we've had reports of shots fired in this neighborhood, do you know anything about it?" You have a civil conversation. There was no way to prove whether "reported" shots came from his gun anyway unless they had recovered bullets or casings and could compare them to his gun.
I might prefer to be in the back of the car as opposed to having my boss, mother-in-law or someone else drive by and see me cuffed out on the street. But, having said that, it's also reasonable to suppose that violence in a neighborhood would cause both cops and citizens some concern, and that the citizens might feel safer armed. I suppose the important and missing info is what happened in that patrol car and how long it took.
CharlesMorrison
Banned
I can't link to it on my iTouch but there is another thread here that includes a video and more information.
It's under the heading of "LEO Encounters" , Vermont resident....
It's under the heading of "LEO Encounters" , Vermont resident....
BC1
,
My best friend, a criminal defense attorney once asked me at point I feel I would be under arrest. I said when LE tells me so. The answer was "no matter what the cop says or doesn't say consider yourself under arrest when your freedom is taken away... handcuffs."
VT Patriot
Oldskibum
Also a Vermonter here. I do carry, either open or CC. Tho the police acted 'stupidly' (time for a beer summit??), Rutland VT has a big drug trafficing problem. Most of the state is OK, but I would always CC in Rutland. Just too edgy there.
wolf_fire
New member
I'm happy for your feelings, but there is a legal difference between being detained and being under arrest. At this point, with the information given in the article, it does not seem like anything was done wrong.
I'll be the first to admit wrong doing when it is evident, but that's the problem, we have a two-line description from the OP of what happened that lacks many details and the article provided specifically says Severance was not arrested even though the title of the article says he was. That seems confusing to me, therefore I've asked if I'm missing something.
snatale42
New member
No surprise it's Rutland, their known to be anti, I can see them stopping him to talk to him quickly if there were actually a report of shots fired in the area but handcuffing him and throwing him in the back of a cruiser? c'mon. I hate the inconsistancies in different cities and towns. It's like in my home state of MA, open carry is 100% legal, but do it in a town that's not used to seeing it and get ready for hell!
When LEO's detain you for questioning they would not handcuff you. unless the arrest is imminent, when they question you they ask you to submit to questioning, if you refuse, they have to let you go or arrest you. you have an out if there was on probable cause that the courts might have to clarify.
whodat2710
New member
They can also legally cuff you without placing you under arrest for "officer safety" if you are presenting a threat. However, it must have been a liberal cop that hates seeing guns in the hands of the public to define "having a gun" as being a threat.
wolf_fire
New member
This is absolutely wrong information. LEO's can handcuff for many reasons that do not involve an arrest... officer safety, safety of the detainee are but just two.
Also, if there were others around that would influence Severance in speaking freely, I can surely see the officer putting him in the car.
dogshawred
New member
At the end of the video Serverance states that an officer ask him if he was aware of a shooting incident the other night. SO, this was not an active incident for the police and didn't warrant extreme caution with any and every citizen that appeared armed.
~
What criminal is going to walk past a cruiser with police standing by with his weapon exposed for them to see, especially when simply putting on his shirt would have lessened the officers ability to see it.
~
Being cautious is one thing, we all practice this everyday. Being over protective is something else and as parents and spouses we too are guilty. Being over barring and over stepping your bounds legally is an entirely different problem and one that must be addressed every time it happens.
~
The young man seems determined to stand his ground and I wish him well.
~
What criminal is going to walk past a cruiser with police standing by with his weapon exposed for them to see, especially when simply putting on his shirt would have lessened the officers ability to see it.
~
Being cautious is one thing, we all practice this everyday. Being over protective is something else and as parents and spouses we too are guilty. Being over barring and over stepping your bounds legally is an entirely different problem and one that must be addressed every time it happens.
~
The young man seems determined to stand his ground and I wish him well.
BC1
,
blacks Law Dictionary defines arrest as "To keep a person in lawful custody." Once handcuffed you are in lawful custody. You are not free to go.
When/if a cop lays hands on me, he'd better have a damned good reason. If the fuzz wants to talk to me, present the questions in a civil manner and I'll answer those to which answers are required by law. Being handcuffed for no reason other than as a show of force in the "interest of officer safety" doesn't fly.
fudo
New member
Maybe one of our resident LEO's can explain how being handcuffed, locked in a police car,or stripped of my weapon is supposed to be useful for "protecting my safety." It seems to me that they are protecting THEIR safety. The price for their feelings of well being seems to be the treatment of lowly civilians like button men from Columbia. Clearly, this is not everybody. The OHP(Oklahoma) and Texas DPS are well known for their professionalism.
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